Thread: Discussion regarding abortion in cases of birth defects

Originally Posted by sec

the below are true stories


my sister was told she'd be fine, the cancer took her 4 months later.

A very good friend of mine was told about 10 years ago to get his affairs in order

my wife and I just went out to dinner with him and his wife last weekend

the one thing I've learned about Drs, they aren't God.

I agree, doctors are not always going to be right, especially when it comes to diseases that we aren't fully knowledgeable of. I should probably do some homework on the accuracy of prenatal testing for birth defects.

Another potential situation just occurred to me.

What if testing shows a fetus has a genetic disorder, like Tay-Sachs disease, which usually presents 6 months after birth and results in death a few years later, and is a generally debilitating disease up until that point. After a quick internet search, it seems the prenatal testing for this is quite accurate, in situations where the parents did not realize they may be carriers before proceeding with pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Makedde

But you can form an opinion, you can type on this website, you can hold a conversation, you can cook, dress yourself, wipe your own arse, you can do your own shopping, you can walk, and see, and hear. You are totally independant and do not rely on another adult to do everything for you.

Now imagine not being able to do ANY of those things. Think about what your life would be like if you had to have someone else put you to bed, bathe you, dress you, and wipe your bum for you? I don't know about you, but I would wish I was dead, and if I knew I would have a child like that, I would not hesitate to have an abortion.

You really need to stop thinking about yourself and consider what your childs life would be like. If you wouldn't want to live like a severely disabled person, how can you assume a child would want to?

interesting

and children born blind or deaf know no other way. Who are we to say their life is less worthy than ours. It's like the abortion issue in itself. Who are we to say that this life or that must be terminated?

Originally Posted by sec

Who are we to say their life is less worthy than ours. It's like the abortion issue in itself. Who are we to say that this life or that must be terminated?

That's why we have abortion, to terminate a pregnancy before the life begins.

Pronunciation: /bərTH/
noun
the emergence of a baby or other young from the body of its mother; the start of life as a physically separate being:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ion=us&q=birth

Originally Posted by sec

interesting

and children born blind or deaf know no other way. Who are we to say their life is less worthy than ours. It's like the abortion issue in itself. Who are we to say that this life or that must be terminated?

If my child was blind or deaf I would never abort them. They are not mentally disabled, are they? But if the child was going to have severe Cerebral Palsy, or Downs Syndrome, that IS an intellectual disability, and I would abort.

Originally Posted by Junkieturtle

Because you're not taking into consideration what life is like for that child, and only that you don't want to have the guilt of having an abortion and not "choosing life". I don't know, honestly, which is why I made this thread. I have no experience being around or raising a special needs child, so I'm not going to pretend I understand what it's like, but I just can't help but wonder what the quality of life is for a severely disabled child in situations where the mother knew that it was going to be born that way.

How arrogant is that?

Who are you to determine someone else's quality of life FOR THEM? What happened to "let kids be themselves"?...lol.

I don't have a special needs kid either. But if I did end up having one, I wouldn't kill him/her. I would take care of that child as I would any of my other 7.

Just b/c your life isn't perfect, doesn't mean you get a mulligan on it. I would consider it a blessing to have such a child, that God chose my wife, my kids, and I to care for such a person. What an example for my other children, to grow up knowing a side of life most people cant possibly fathom.

Life is what you make of it. If all your considered about is yourself, then you cant see the genuine humility or goodness of such a situation.

It goes with the saying: "Fat people are people to". Well guess what? "Retarded people are people to". Who are you or I to say they should be killed because someone else thinks their life isn't good for them. Let the person your wanting to kill, make up their own mind on that, afterall, it's their life, not yours.

Originally Posted by TheHat

How arrogant is that?

Who are you to determine someone else's quality of life FOR THEM? What happened to "let kids be themselves"?...lol.

I don't have a special needs kid either. But if I did end up having one, I wouldn't kill him/her. I would take care of that child as I would any of my other 7.

Just b/c your life isn't perfect, doesn't mean you get a mulligan on it. I would consider it a blessing to have such a child, that God chose my wife, my kids, and I to care for such a person. What an example for my other children, to grow up knowing a side of life most people cant possibly fathom.

Life is what you make of it. If all your considered about is yourself, then you cant see the genuine humility or goodness of such a situation.

It goes with the saying: "Fat people are people to". Well guess what? "Retarded people are people to". Who are you or I to say they should be killed because someone else thinks their life isn't good for them. Let the person your wanting to kill, make up their own mind on that, afterall, it's their life, not yours.

They don't get to make up their own mind. Assisted suicide is not legal, and even if it were, it probably wouldn't be legal for mentally challenged people on the basis that they are not competent enough to make that decision.

And all your examples ARE selfish. You're talking about how great it would be for you, and your wife, and your kids. I didn't see any mention of how great it would be for the child growing up with a debilitating birth defect.

Originally Posted by Junkieturtle

The purpose of this thread is to discuss abortion in cases where prenatal testing has shown one or more birth defects. This thread is not about whether abortion in general should be legal or illegal, or abortion in any other circumstances than the confirmed presence of birth defects. There are other threads for general abortion discussion. Cases where the handicap is caused by something post-birth would not apply to this thread, nor am I directly or indirectly suggesting the idea that post-birth defects be handled in a similar manner. I am also not proposing mandatory abortion in these cases, so please, lets keep the discussion free from baseless generalizations and assumptions.

My personal stance is that abortion should be strongly recommended in cases of confirmed birth defects, especially seriously debilitating physical or mental ones. I drop my kids off at school every morning. Their elementary school has a special education department for mentally handicapped and other wise special education needs children. I see these kids and I can't help but wonder what their quality of life is. Some of the ones with more mild complications probably don't have that hard of time, but I see some of the kids with serious physical defects(admittedly, the mentally handicapped ones are harder for me to identify since I'm not in the classroom with them) and I just feel it's selfish to have allowed them to be born. I've read the inspirational stories of families with disabled children, and they are heartwarming, but nobody ever talks about the kids and what they might be thinking, likely because they don't actually know.

In those cases, I truly feel your doctor ought to strongly recommend terminating the pregnancy, not out of convenience for the parents but mercy for the child.

Here it is illegal to abort a child with a fatal birth defect.

Even if it certain that the child will die as soon as it is born, for example when it has no brain, the woman must carry to full term. The right to life of the unborn had many unintended consequences.

I do not agree that it should be recommended, if a woman wishes to abort than I understand it but I support the right to do so for the same reason I support legal access to abortion, because a woman should have the right to make her own medical decisions about her body.

Originally Posted by TheHat

How arrogant is that?

Who are you to determine someone else's quality of life FOR THEM? What happened to "let kids be themselves"?...lol.

I don't have a special needs kid either. But if I did end up having one, I wouldn't kill him/her. I would take care of that child as I would any of my other 7.

Just b/c your life isn't perfect, doesn't mean you get a mulligan on it. I would consider it a blessing to have such a child, that God chose my wife, my kids, and I to care for such a person. What an example for my other children, to grow up knowing a side of life most people cant possibly fathom.

Life is what you make of it. If all your considered about is yourself, then you cant see the genuine humility or goodness of such a situation.

It goes with the saying: "Fat people are people to". Well guess what? "Retarded people are people to". Who are you or I to say they should be killed because someone else thinks their life isn't good for them. Let the person your wanting to kill, make up their own mind on that, afterall, it's their life, not yours.

How are we to determine someone's quality of life for them? Well gee, would you like to sit in a chair 24 hours a day and have your wife dress you, bathe you, brush your hair, take you to the toilet, put you to bed, get you out of bed and into your wheelchair, provide you with medical treatment, all while taking care of 7 kids?

If the answer is yes, IMO that is (*)(*)(*)(*)ing selfish and I would rather die than expect my family to do all that for me rather than allow them to live their own lives. Just imagine how it is for a child. They'd be trapped in a body that doesn't function, and you would assume they want to be alive just because you would be 'blessed' to care for such a child? That God somehow blessed you with a special needs child? Sorry, a special needs child is not a blessing, to many, its a curse.

This is all about a class of people who will find any excuse under the sun to kill children. The particular excuse here is imperfect children and imagining that the self sacrifice it would take to parent a child with mental or physical disabilities is to hard its out of their comfort zone. They do not value life. For them the sacrifice would be a waste. This centers around …."life"……and who they think should live and die. But the fact is…they are all pro-aborts…so this issue…is ridiculous because their position says…killing the life in the womb is ok acceptable….and more people should do it…in this case…kill all handicapped and mentally handicapped children. That is playing God….but they do it for all other abortion excuses as well…this is no different…no surprise. Of course they would be pro-death…I mean who on earth would want to take care of an imperfect child. Sanger had the same views….and Hitler did too.

Makedde said,

"How are we to determine someone's quality of life for them? Well gee, would you like to sit in a chair 24 hours a day and have your wife dress you, bathe you, brush your hair, take you to the toilet, put you to bed, get you out of bed and into your wheelchair, provide you with medical treatment, all while taking care of 7 kids?"

You do that just by being a pro-abort. You are saying its ok to kill a living human being. And of course you could never take care of someone you just described…that is a no brainer. You would not have what it takes that is for sure. God help a member of your family who might one day need assistance that you find too repulsive to give. Boy we live in a narcissistic world and your view is just that. Its me me me me me…your just one definition.

"If the answer is yes, IMO that is (*)(*)(*)(*)ing selfish and I would rather die than expect my family to do all that for me rather than allow them to live their own lives. Just imagine how it is for a child. They'd be trapped in a body that doesn't function, and you would assume they want to be alive just because you would be 'blessed' to care for such a child? That God somehow blessed you with a special needs child? Sorry, a special needs child is not a blessing, to many, its a curse."

The key to your statement here is……"I would rather die"…….YOU ARE MAKING THE DETERMINATION FOR YOURSELF, LIKE IT IS PERSONAL AND YET YOU ALSO ARE DOING IT BY BEING PRO-ABORTION…AS YOUR POSITION CALLS FOR THE KILLING OF UNBORNS WHO DON'T GET THAT CHOICE.

Your worldview is sad on every level. I would assume you would also think people already born…who are challenged are not worth the trouble. hey in your world there would be no handicap ramps…anything handicap. Its a characteristic that repulses you.