Thread: The abortionist

When you talk about abortion…there are three involved. The abortionist and assistants, the woman and the unborn child. We debate on this forum many things concerning abortion but never focus in on the ones doing the actual killing. What type of person can cope on a daily basis the horrors of abortion? What do they go through?

Lets look at the abortionists life.

if abortion is just a common surgical procedure, the same as any other medical procedure…then the abortionist really should have no stress , his work should be accepted by all as normal and free from any trauma. But what is the truth?

Some of the research I did for this came from…Lime5 by Mark Crutcher.

Abortionist David Zbaraz told the Washington Post, "It's a nasty, dirty, yucky thing and I always come home angry." His wife said, "on those days when he performs an abortion, I can tell as soon as he walks in the door."

Sallie Tisdale, a nurse in an abortion clinic, writes, "There are weary, grim moments when I think I cannot bear another basin of boldly remains, utter another kind phrase of reassurance…."How can you stand it?' even the clients ask. They see the machine, the strange instruments, the blood, the final stroke that wipes away the promise of pregnancy. Sometimes I see that too: I watch a woman's swollen abdomen sink to softness in a few stuttering moments and my own belly flip flops with sorrow."

In a new York Times editorial, Dr. Susan Conde said,"I observed during my medical training as an Australian physician many abortions by experienced practitioners. They experienced, without exception, physical revulsion and moral bewilderment."

During a workshop sponsored by the national Abortion Federation, one nurse described her horror as an abortionist she worked for pulled out a cannula and a tiny foot was attached to it.

Judith Fetrow, a former clinic worker from SanFrancisco, revealed that in her experience, "clinic workers have very mixed emotions about abortion…..Clinic workers may say they support a woman's right to choose, but they will also say that they do not want to see tiny hands and tiny feet. They do not want to be faced with the consequences of their actions….There is a great difference between the intellectual support of a woman's right to choose and the actual participation in the carnage of
abortion. Because seeing body parts bothers the workers."

"If the abortion is well done, we don't have to watch the baby die. So we inject a salt solution. The result is like putting salt on a slug, but we don't have to watch it." -- Dr. Russell Sacco, M.D.

"... [abortion] is still the dark side of medicine." -- Morris Wortman, Abortionist
Democrat and Chronicle, July 5. 1992

"[The few doctors willing to replace those who are retiring are] mostly physicians who have had difficulty establishing regular ob-gyn practices." Mentioning a clinic in Nebraska where a young doctor was brought in to replace an older one, "Out of his first six months of work, there are nine malpractice suits ... After it was apparent the guy was a klutz, they kept using him, and trying to cover for him, because they couldn't find another provider." -- Robert Crist, Abortionist
St. Petersburg Times, June 3, 1990

"In obstetrics and gynecology, the term abortionist is still a dirty word." Joe Thompson, Retired Abortionist
South Bend Tribune, December 26, 1992

"It's true that abortion providers are perceived as not very good doctors -- that they have no alternative so they do abortions, that they cannot earn a living any other way." Richard Hausknecht, Abortionist
The New York Times Magazine, January 18, 1998

"Sometimes we lied. A girl might ask what her baby was like as a cerlain point in pregnancy. Was it a baby yet? Even as early as twelve weeks a baby is totally formed, he has fingerprints, turns his head, fans his toes, feels pain. But we would say, 'It's not a baby yet. It's tissue, like a clot." Kathy Sparks, former abortion clinic worker

"It's difficult being in a profession where you have a hard time answerlng the questions that other people ask you about what you do ... you come to feel not so good about what you're doing even when you thought you were doing something wonderful."
Terry Beresford. Planned Parenthood

"I had gotten involved in abortion because I wanted to help. But instead, while sucking the child out of its mother I was also sucking out the mother's soul and leaving an empty shell, an empty tomb. I began to detest what I was doing. More than that I began to detest myself. I even entertained thoughts of suicide." Beverly McMillan M.D., OB/GYN, former abortionist

"We don't have real conversations. Sometimes the employees faint. Sometimes they throw up. Sometimes they have to leave the room …" Joy Davis, Clinic Manager

http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/workers_say.htm

Research has been done concerning the health of the abortionist…..Constance Nathanson and Marshall Becker observed, ""Some studies have suggested that some physicians experience considerable personal disturbances over the abortion procedure itself." Their own study found that 41.8% of Maryland Ob/Gyns who support Roe v Wade are often or sometimes disturbed by abortion. Of those who are disturbed, 37.1 % admit that the disturbance is severe or moderate."

They see a conflict between being a protector of pregnancy and a terminator of life.

Is there a conflict and do abortionist suffer just like the mothers of the children they kill?

Originally Posted by churchmouse

When you talk about abortion…there are three involved. The abortionist and assistants, the woman and the unborn child.

Comes to more than three - and even that is arbitrary as I can and will debate the whole "unborn child" thing - and even the presence these days of an "abortionist" given the increasing usage of RU486 which can and often is obtained via the internet

We debate on this forum many things concerning abortion but never focus in on the ones doing the actual killing. What type of person can cope on a daily basis the horrors of abortion? What do they go through?

Simple - they do not see it as "killing" and neither do many others.

Lets look at the abortionists life.

Oh! Goody! I like fiction - especially science fiction and without reading further I can almost guarantee this will be the "monster on the loose" kind of Sci fi

if abortion is just a common surgical procedure, the same as any other medical procedure…then the abortionist really should have no stress , his work should be accepted by all as normal and free from any trauma. But what is the truth?

Some of the research I did for this came from…Lime5 by Mark Crutcher.

Naughty naughty!! You left out the bit where he is an ardent pro-life whose previous jobs prior to getting into what appears to be a lucrative field in telling pro-lifers how to be more radical, was to a be in marketing for the automotive industry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Crutcher

So, what qualifications does he have, beyond an active imagination, to write on this subject??

Abortionist David Zbaraz told the Washington Post, "It's a nasty, dirty, yucky thing and I always come home angry." His wife said, "on those days when he performs an abortion, I can tell as soon as he walks in the door."

Look, if you are going to post unreferenced anecdotes - at least get the grammar correct - you are switching between him saying that and his wife saying that - so who was it? (hard now too for him to refute this as he is dead). I googled this guy as his name was reasonably unique. So it seems from this court case http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/442/1309 That he may have been a reluctant abortionist only doing it for medical reasons. Now an abortion for medical reasons is often a wanted pregnancy and all are saddened by the necessity of the procedure so the quote proves nothing except that Crutcher is a master cherry picker

Sallie Tisdale, a nurse in an abortion clinic, writes, "There are weary, grim moments when I think I cannot bear another basin of boldly remains, utter another kind phrase of reassurance…."How can you stand it?' even the clients ask. They see the machine, the strange instruments, the blood, the final stroke that wipes away the promise of pregnancy. Sometimes I see that too: I watch a woman's swollen abdomen sink to softness in a few stuttering moments and my own belly flip flops with sorrow."

CLASSIC CHERRY PICK!!!!

next para

In describing this work, I find it difficult to explain how much I enjoy it most of the time. We laugh a lot here, as friends and as professional peers. It’s nice to be with women all day. I like the sudden transient bonds I forge with some clients: moments when I am in my strength, remembering weakness, and a woman in weakness reaches out for my strength. What I offer is not power, but solidness, offered almost eagerly. Certain clients waken in me every tender urge I have—others make we wince and bite my tongue. Both challenge me to find a balance. It is a sweet brutality we practice here, a stark and loving dispassion.

This next paragraph is also worth a read

I grew up on the great promise of birth control. Like many women my age, I took the pill as soon as I was sexually active. To risk pregnancy when it was so easy to avoid seemed stupid, and my contraceptive success, a it were was part of the promise of social enlightenment. But Birth control fails, far more frequently than laboratory trials predict. Many of our clients take the pill; its failure to protect them is a shocking realization. We have clients who have been sterilized, whose husbands have had vasectomies each one is a statistical misfit, fine print come to life. The anger and shame of these women I hold in one hand, and the basin in the other. The distance between the two, the length I pace and try to measure, is the size of an abortion.

http://realweb.ifastnet.com/articles/weabort.html

Definitely worth a read - thank-you however I doubt the take home message is the one you wanted us to get from that essay

In a new York Times editorial, Dr. Susan Conde said,"I observed during my medical training as an Australian physician many abortions by experienced practitioners. They experienced, without exception, physical revulsion and moral bewilderment."

This lady is interesting because on one site she is Australian and another American..................hmmm mmmm

During a workshop sponsored by the national Abortion Federation, one nurse described her horror as an abortionist she worked for pulled out a cannula and a tiny foot was attached to it.

Judith Fetrow, a former clinic worker from SanFrancisco, revealed that in her experience, "clinic workers have very mixed emotions about abortion…..Clinic workers may say they support a woman's right to choose, but they will also say that they do not want to see tiny hands and tiny feet. They do not want to be faced with the consequences of their actions….There is a great difference between the intellectual support of a woman's right to choose and the actual participation in the carnage of
abortion. Because seeing body parts bothers the workers."

"If the abortion is well done, we don't have to watch the baby die. So we inject a salt solution. The result is like putting salt on a slug, but we don't have to watch it." -- Dr. Russell Sacco, M.D.

"... [abortion] is still the dark side of medicine." -- Morris Wortman, Abortionist
Democrat and Chronicle, July 5. 1992

"[The few doctors willing to replace those who are retiring are] mostly physicians who have had difficulty establishing regular ob-gyn practices." Mentioning a clinic in Nebraska where a young doctor was brought in to replace an older one, "Out of his first six months of work, there are nine malpractice suits ... After it was apparent the guy was a klutz, they kept using him, and trying to cover for him, because they couldn't find another provider." -- Robert Crist, Abortionist
St. Petersburg Times, June 3, 1990

"In obstetrics and gynecology, the term abortionist is still a dirty word." Joe Thompson, Retired Abortionist
South Bend Tribune, December 26, 1992

"It's true that abortion providers are perceived as not very good doctors -- that they have no alternative so they do abortions, that they cannot earn a living any other way." Richard Hausknecht, Abortionist
The New York Times Magazine, January 18, 1998

"Sometimes we lied. A girl might ask what her baby was like as a cerlain point in pregnancy. Was it a baby yet? Even as early as twelve weeks a baby is totally formed, he has fingerprints, turns his head, fans his toes, feels pain. But we would say, 'It's not a baby yet. It's tissue, like a clot." Kathy Sparks, former abortion clinic worker

"It's difficult being in a profession where you have a hard time answerlng the questions that other people ask you about what you do ... you come to feel not so good about what you're doing even when you thought you were doing something wonderful."
Terry Beresford. Planned Parenthood

"I had gotten involved in abortion because I wanted to help. But instead, while sucking the child out of its mother I was also sucking out the mother's soul and leaving an empty shell, an empty tomb. I began to detest what I was doing. More than that I began to detest myself. I even entertained thoughts of suicide." Beverly McMillan M.D., OB/GYN, former abortionist

"We don't have real conversations. Sometimes the employees faint. Sometimes they throw up. Sometimes they have to leave the room …" Joy Davis, Clinic Manager

http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/workers_say.htm

Research has been done concerning the health of the abortionist…..Constance Nathanson and Marshall Becker observed, ""Some studies have suggested that some physicians experience considerable personal disturbances over the abortion procedure itself." Their own study found that 41.8% of Maryland Ob/Gyns who support Roe v Wade are often or sometimes disturbed by abortion. Of those who are disturbed, 37.1 % admit that the disturbance is severe or moderate."

They see a conflict between being a protector of pregnancy and a terminator of life.

Is there a conflict and do abortionist suffer just like the mothers of the children they kill?

I won't go through all of the anecdotes because that is what they are - cherry picked to twist words and can I say that if Mark Crutcher is telling you do play that game then he is a fool because once exposed all it does is make the person spreading the rubbish look like a desperate liar. But why Crutcher care about that? He is getting paid for selling pro-lifers a manual on false advertising - he is not the one looking bad

To me, the situation is simple. If I were in a position where I desired an abortion, I'd get one. If YOU were in such a position, whether you'd get one is up to you. Your decision is not up to me, and my decision is not up to you.

However, if Americans should lose this civil right because of religious fanaticism, there are still sane countries in the world where I would have no difficulty exercising the constitutional rights the bible-bangers took away from me in the US, or alternatively I could take the Underground Railroad, and get one that way. I understand this would be more expensive either way, which would deprive the least powerful of their rights. I understand that the GOAL of people like churchmouse is to deprive the poor of their rights, becasue the rich can always buy the rights the poor can't afford. Bigotry always affects the poor the hardest for this reason.

Bowerbird said,

"Comes to more than three - and even that is arbitrary as I can and will debate the whole "unborn child" thing - and even the presence these days of an "abortionist" given the increasing usage of RU486 which can and often is obtained via the internet"

You go to any abortion clinic and three are basically involved. The doctor and assistants, the woman and the child.

"Simple - they do not see it as "killing" and neither do many others."

Many do see it as killing….and there lies the problem for pro-aborts.

"Oh! Goody! I like fiction - especially science fiction and without reading further I can almost guarantee this will be the "monster on the loose" kind of Sci fi"

And of course you can't address anything specifically I posted….the way you pro-death people operate….no surprise. Divert attention from the unborn…...

"Naughty naughty!! You left out the bit where he is an ardent pro-life whose previous jobs prior to getting into what appears to be a lucrative field in telling pro-lifers how to be more radical, was to a be in marketing for the automotive industry

Crutcher is credible…and his book is the truth…the truth you won't even look at because your so drenched in the death of the unborn you can't see right from wrong…and you don't want too…you simply do not care. So you make pot shots…you laugh….you do the comedy routine cause you've got nothing else. Lucrative field? Honey….abortion is the lucrative field….PP is a billion dollar organization.

"So, what qualifications does he have, beyond an active imagination, to write on this subject??"

I thought you knew? Your the one posting information about him. LMAO No one quits a job like he had in automotive unless you are so passionate about something else you don't care how much you make.

http://www.in.com/mark-crutcher/biography-186843.html

"Look, if you are going to post unreferenced anecdotes - at least get the grammar correct - you are switching between him saying that and his wife saying that - so who was it? (hard now too for him to refute this as he is dead). I googled this guy as his name was reasonably unique. So it seems from this court case http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/442/1309 That he may have been a reluctant abortionist only doing it for medical reasons. Now an abortion for medical reasons is often a wanted pregnancy and all are saddened by the necessity of the procedure so the quote proves nothing except that Crutcher is a master cherry picker"

I picked out the examples from Lime5 that had names attached. All you have to do is google the name of the person and all sorts of information and quotes come up. Do you think your able to do this? LMAO The fact is people are not going to med school to be abortionists…because many have conflicting moral problems with it. Crutcher did the research…and well…you don't like what he found.

"I won't go through all of the anecdotes because that is what they are - cherry picked to twist words and can I say that if Mark Crutcher is telling you do play that game then he is a fool because once exposed all it does is make the person spreading the rubbish look like a desperate liar. But why Crutcher care about that? He is getting paid for selling pro-lifers a manual on false advertising - he is not the one looking bad"

So you are denying all the quotes of all these people…they are all lies? Not one the truth?

Originally Posted by Flintc

To me, the situation is simple. If I were in a position where I desired an abortion, I'd get one. If YOU were in such a position, whether you'd get one is up to you. Your decision is not up to me, and my decision is not up to you.

However, if Americans should lose this civil right because of religious fanaticism, there are still sane countries in the world where I would have no difficulty exercising the constitutional rights the bible-bangers took away from me in the US, or alternatively I could take the Underground Railroad, and get one that way. I understand this would be more expensive either way, which would deprive the least powerful of their rights. I understand that the GOAL of people like churchmouse is to deprive the poor of their rights, becasue the rich can always buy the rights the poor can't afford. Bigotry always affects the poor the hardest for this reason.

What does this have to do with the topic I presented? This is about the abortionist and the affects abortions have on them.

Then move to another perfect country if you do not like the United States. If you read the history of PP you would see that its founder…Sanger…targeted blacks and the poor. And today abortion clinics are cleverly set up mainly in poor areas….for a reason. It is not the pro-lifer that wants to attack minorities and blacks. We want to save babies. And the point of this thread is that even the abortionist many times suffers from what he/she does. It is dark medicine.

One need not bring religion to the table here……science tells us when human life starts. You just don't respect it…you want to kill it.

The entire anti-abortion front is pointless....Any law enacted to make the practice illegal will include an aspect that allows for abortion in any case where the mother's life is at risk........and guess what..........every single pregnacy is life threating to the mother........................ ..dummy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01MmXksUWw

He says it is hard to look at the parts….but just taking care of the patients.

Yes the life of a scumbag…..did you see the unborn moving, breathing.

What kind of a person would do this? Do it over and over and over.

For many doctors it becomes too much.

Great story of an abortionist who did an about face on this.


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/for...gospel-of-life


And here is another story…spoken by the abortionist himself.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/the...-a-former-abor

And he killed normal children at 24 weeks. My niece was born at 23 1/2. And today she is 20 and healthy. This is murder.

THIS IS THE TRUTH…..YOU HEARD IT YOURSELF.

So don't tell me that this is a lie…and that it does not affect the abortionist.

Anyone with a heart…..would be upset over this. So if your not upset…then God help you…I can only imagine the things you do and condone in your life.


Here is another doctor from Serbia. Must be one of those moral countries you were talking about eh?


http://www.voicescarryblog.com/the-c...-life-apostle/


It is hard to kill…there is a social stigma still today after 40 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7ReiVLu1yU

All lies?

http://www.abortiontv.com/Words/AbortionistQuotes.htm

Originally Posted by megatron

The entire anti-abortion front is pointless....Any law enacted to make the practice illegal will include an aspect that allows for abortion in any case where the mother's life is at risk........and guess what..........every single pregnacy is life threating to the mother........................ ..dummy

No its not. We have shut down and are shutting down abortion clinics all over the country. Doctors are not going into this field and it will become harder for women to get them.

If a pregnancy is life threatening….I mean the woman is dying…no hospital would let her die. And in most cases both mother and childs life can be saved.

It is just amazing that you are here that your mother didn't die in childbirth. Or did she? And if you have brothers and sisters….amazing too that she didn't die from giving them birth as well. And heck….look at the number of posters on this forum…wow. I bet no mother died in childbirth here.

How many births happened last year in the US alone?

"The United States is the third most populous country in the world following China and India. The U.S. population, currently more than 265 million, is growing by about 2.5 million people each year, making the United States one of the world's fastest-growingindustrialized nations."

Wow……you would think if pregnancy were that dangerous…we wouldn't have the population we have. And with abortion legal…hell if it was that dangerous what woman would do it?

Dangerous….not saying that some women have complications…but for the most part…it is part of life and not life threatening at all.

Dummy? Shouldn't you be at Kindergarten camp or something?

Originally Posted by churchmouse

No its not.

Yes, every pregnancy is potentially life threatening. From UNICEF:

"...any pregnant woman can develop complications at any time during pregnancy, at delivery, or in the postpartum period.

This means that all pregnant women are at risk."