I don't know most pro-choicers so I can't argue with that. I would imagine you do know them, to make assertions on their behalf.

I am pro-choice. And I can guarantee you right this minute without brooking a single argument from you that there is no way on this good green earth that you will not consider your unborn foetus a child before it's born. It's a weird thing to explain, and I a) would not have believed it until it happened to me, and b) cannot possibly explain it to you in a way that you will believe, but I know this beyond any shadow of a doubt that when you are pregnant you will look back on this conversation and go `right, I know what she was talking about'.

Everything about your outlook in life changes when you are pregnant. Not straight away - it's not an instant thing. But it does and will change. I know this also because I was much like you before I fell pregnant, and a lot of what you are saying is stuff I would have agreed with more before I fell pregnant. Now it seems absurd to me because of those reasons I just can't explain.

All I can say is wait. You are sure of your feelings now - I know you are. But they will change. Sure as the sun is going to rise tomorrow, they will. And that's nothing to be ashamed of, either.

You might very well still be pro choice. I am. But your feelings about foetuses and their status will shift dramatically. I would put my house on it.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

Oh - I wanted to add something. One of the ladies I work with is 29 weeks pregnant - 7 more than me and a LOT happens in that time.

When her husband talks to her stomach, he moves his head from her chest down to the bottom of her abdomen, and the baby moves with him. So that it can be closer to his voice. I'm sorry, but that is a human.

The same thing happens with my baby. When I put my hand on my stomach, wherever she is, she will move until she is right underneath it. That is a human. With conscious decision-making as well, even though she won't remember it.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

Can I just say it is a delight Chesby05 to have a woman on here supporting the right to life. (a pregnant woman at that.) I pray everything goes smoothly for you and you end up having a beautiful healthy child.

Thank you very much!! We hope so too - everything's going well so far.

As far as the abortion debate goes - well, that's a really tough one for me because I have had an abortion. It was for medical reasons and it was a very long time ago after I got pregnant whilst on the pill.

It was hard then, knowing what I know now has actually brought it back home to me even more.

I don't pretend that I am not also pro-choice, though. I have been thinking about that all day. I am pro-life, and pro-choice. I'm still trying to work out how to reconcile the two.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

I am sure it does, and perhaps I will see things differently, but I will never ever wish to deny women the right to choose.

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Sharon Marie Tate: January 24 1943 - 9 August 1969
Forever Remembered

Neither do I. But I don't have to spout absurdities such as some kind of imaginary distinction between a `human' and a `human being' to defend that belief.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

A human is not the same as a human being - that is law. The law does not recognise a fetus as a human being/person because that would be like saying a fetus is just the same as you or I. I am not denying it is human, but by definition, and law, it is not a human being until birth. You cannot argue with the law.

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Sharon Marie Tate: January 24 1943 - 9 August 1969
Forever Remembered

Yes you can. You can argue with the law as much as you want. The law is not infallible. It changes all the time.

It used to be law that women couldn't vote. It used to be law that indigenous Australians were classed as Flora and Fauna. It used to be law in South Africa that black people and white people couldn't sit on the same bus. It used to be law that you were allowed to keep slaves. Need I go on?

I am starting to wonder if you've actually had an abortion yourself, and you're struggling with it, and so you've hidden behind a bunch of misinformed and incorrect ideals to protect yourself from having to face it? There's no shame in that - it would certainly explain a lot.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

I have not had an abortion. However, I know people who have, and hate themselves for it, and take their anger out on those who are pro choice.

I get my information from friends who actually work in the actual abortion clinic, who perform abortions, doctors, nurses etc. I know what I am talking about, better than anyone here.
I don't rely on rubbish pro life sites like our friend Kuta.

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Sharon Marie Tate: January 24 1943 - 9 August 1969
Forever Remembered

Righto. Well, they must be abortion clinics on Mars because any doctor who has actually done a medical degree knows exactly what happens during gestational development. So unless you're talking about those coat-hanger and whisky abortion clinics, you're talking out of your rear. Get a medical text book out, sweetie, or google `gestational development' and you will find all the information you need about what happens at what stage of pregnancy.

I suppose you think that the sun still revolves around the earth?

Oh yeah - and I don't regret my abortion, actually. I didn't appreciate the fact that the doctor who performed it was on the front page of the paper the next day after being arrested for performing abortions (including mine) but the actual abortion itself was the right thing to do - for all concerned. I was upset about it (because unlike you I have a heart) but I'm not angry or bitter about it. I saved my child and myself a life of probable misery - what's to be angry about?

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins