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Thread: Various Religious Positions On Abortion

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    It is like banging your head against the wall....talking to someone who only wants to bash believers about their faith. You are not motivated by the real truth in this.
    You don't get it...because your not a believer. So tell me what difference it makes?

    This is my favorite subject....but not like I said..when the motivation for truth and learning is not there. You do not have the god given ability to debate this with a believer. Debate it with pagans...then you will all agree.

    - - - Updated - - -



    People sometimes avoid what makes them sick.......and in this case it is not the threads title or subject.
    and how am I "bashing" you about your faith personally, actually read what is written here in the OP and then explain how it is aimed at you personally when it is talking about the relevant positions of various religions on abortion.

    You seem to have some sort of persecution complex when it comes to debating the position of religion in abortion, one has to wonder why.

    I think preaching to the converted is the phrase you are looking for, a pretty pointless exercise in a debating forum.
    Your right to body autonomy - "The common law has consistently held to a rule which provides that one human being is under no legal compulsion to give aid or to take action to save that human being or to rescue" - McFall vs Shimp

    "Individual consent in most societies and most legal system is of primary importance"


    Abortion Reduction = Education NOT Legislation

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  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
    When someone bashes you for having well thought out and supported ideas, as Fugazi has bashed me before, then the basher has no real credibility with which to convince anyone else. Sometimes this makes them insecure and they lash out as we see here.

    I just wish they would take a breath, analyze their own opinions in light of what is reasonable and logical, then change their opinion accordingly. The forum would be a much better place if they would.

    It is also a sign of a weak opinion when the only way you can support it is to attack the opposition's supposed motive for their position. If one's position is secure and supportable, this diversionary tactic is not necessary.
    Problem is you haven't supported your ideas with anything other than you own opinion and when someone actually confronts you on it all you do is throw around insults about them being idiots or such like .. would you care for me to go and find where the insults started, I can assure you it was from you.

    for you to talk about credibility of others is quite amusing considering you have given nothing to earn any here (apart from you like minded religious people), if you feel that this thread is inane then why don't you produce the evidence to dispute it instead of just spouting off meaningless drivel.
    Your right to body autonomy - "The common law has consistently held to a rule which provides that one human being is under no legal compulsion to give aid or to take action to save that human being or to rescue" - McFall vs Shimp

    "Individual consent in most societies and most legal system is of primary importance"


    Abortion Reduction = Education NOT Legislation

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
    The truly ironic part of it is that they are bashing your religion when it is totally irrelevant to the discussion of abortion anyway. legally and scientifically abortion is a homicide and they refuse to admit that simple fact. Probably because they cannot refute truth. So they instead start flailing around slinging mud in every direction.
    This has been disputed not just by me but by another poster who you just ended up ignoring with the usual attempted put-down, and I remind you again that it was you who started the mud flinging .. practice what you preach.
    The problem you have is that when someone discredits your assertions you cannot accept you may actually be wrong or that other people may actually have a better knowledge and/or understanding of that particular issue than you do.

    I defy you or CM to show in this thread where I am "bashing" her belief in Christianity .. I am not and all of your replies are just an attempt to derail the thread.
    Your right to body autonomy - "The common law has consistently held to a rule which provides that one human being is under no legal compulsion to give aid or to take action to save that human being or to rescue" - McFall vs Shimp

    "Individual consent in most societies and most legal system is of primary importance"


    Abortion Reduction = Education NOT Legislation

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    You don't care about learning about this...what should it matter to you? Are you just in the hate believers mood today? Your points not workin in another threads so lets make one to demean those who love God? I could post everything the Bible says about life and Gods word on this....and IT WOULD NOT MATTER. So I am not going to be apart of someones negative and close-minded motives...when discussing what I take so seriously.

    And note....a list of many different religions ....but oddly enough atheism which is a religion is not there. Hmmmmm
    Exactly how am I demeaning love of god here, have you actually read the OP. Everything I have posted in the OP is fact, it is easily checked if you so wish, the final part is an opinion, yet you focus more on the opinion than on the facts presented .. why is that, dispute the facts if you can.

    I'm not an atheist and atheism is not a religion.
    Last edited by Fugazi; Apr 22 2013 at 06:23 AM.
    Your right to body autonomy - "The common law has consistently held to a rule which provides that one human being is under no legal compulsion to give aid or to take action to save that human being or to rescue" - McFall vs Shimp

    "Individual consent in most societies and most legal system is of primary importance"


    Abortion Reduction = Education NOT Legislation

  6. #25

    Default

    You are lying, once again, but here ya go:

    http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/...n-life-begins/

    "The entire basis for a new, human life beginning at conception stems from well documented, universally recognized scientific fact. The only ones who deny this are those blinded by their own religious dogma of so-called “choice” who have a stubborn need to deny scientific fact in order to stay faithful to their own ideology."

    "That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George"


    Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post
    Problem is you haven't supported your ideas with anything other than you own opinion and when someone actually confronts you on it all you do is throw around insults about them being idiots or such like .. would you care for me to go and find where the insults started, I can assure you it was from you.

    for you to talk about credibility of others is quite amusing considering you have given nothing to earn any here (apart from you like minded religious people), if you feel that this thread is inane then why don't you produce the evidence to dispute it instead of just spouting off meaningless drivel.
    - - - Updated - - -

    You are lying, once again, but here ya go:

    http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does-science-say-human-life-begins/

    "The entire basis for a new, human life beginning at conception stems from well documented, universally recognized scientific fact. The only ones who deny this are those blinded by their own religious dogma of so-called “choice” who have a stubborn need to deny scientific fact in order to stay faithful to their own ideology."

    "That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George"


    Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post
    Problem is you haven't supported your ideas with anything other than you own opinion and when someone actually confronts you on it all you do is throw around insults about them being idiots or such like .. would you care for me to go and find where the insults started, I can assure you it was from you.

    for you to talk about credibility of others is quite amusing considering you have given nothing to earn any here (apart from you like minded religious people), if you feel that this thread is inane then why don't you produce the evidence to dispute it instead of just spouting off meaningless drivel.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. " - Not sure who

    "For those who don't know the difference, under capitalism the government works for you, under socialism/communism, YOU work for the government!" - Me

    "When the Electorate realizes they can vote themselves money from the Treasury, it will herald the end of the Republic." - Benjamin Franklin

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
    You are lying, once again, but here ya go:

    http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/...n-life-begins/

    "The entire basis for a new, human life beginning at conception stems from well documented, universally recognized scientific fact. The only ones who deny this are those blinded by their own religious dogma of so-called “choice” who have a stubborn need to deny scientific fact in order to stay faithful to their own ideology."

    "That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George"




    - - - Updated - - -

    You are lying, once again, but here ya go:

    http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/...n-life-begins/

    "The entire basis for a new, human life beginning at conception stems from well documented, universally recognized scientific fact. The only ones who deny this are those blinded by their own religious dogma of so-called “choice” who have a stubborn need to deny scientific fact in order to stay faithful to their own ideology."

    "That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George"
    Who is lying, show me where I have ever said that human life doesn't start at conception .. you can't, read any reply from me where this subject turns up and you will see I have never disputed that human life starts at conception, so this is irrelevant and when aimed at me personally is nothing but a lie.
    Your right to body autonomy - "The common law has consistently held to a rule which provides that one human being is under no legal compulsion to give aid or to take action to save that human being or to rescue" - McFall vs Shimp

    "Individual consent in most societies and most legal system is of primary importance"


    Abortion Reduction = Education NOT Legislation

  8. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post
    Exactly how am I demeaning love of god here, have you actually read the OP. Everything I have posted in the OP is fact, it is easily checked if you so wish, the final part is an opinion, yet you focus more on the opinion than on the facts presented .. why is that, dispute the facts if you can.

    I'm not an atheist and atheism is not a religion.
    Sure it is...it takes just as much faith to believe what you do as what I do. First off you can not prove there is no God. You would have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to do that. And I doubt you have that.

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

    “Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#fX2DTI7mGjJbHiCx.99 http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/

    http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04/...-nonbelievers/

    They might not meet in churches but they meet up to discuss their worldview and beliefs.

    http://atheists.meetup.com
    And humanism a religion...so says the SCOTUS.

    http://vftonline.org/Patriarchy/defi...m_religion.htm
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post
    Exactly how am I demeaning love of god here, have you actually read the OP. Everything I have posted in the OP is fact, it is easily checked if you so wish, the final part is an opinion, yet you focus more on the opinion than on the facts presented .. why is that, dispute the facts if you can.

    I'm not an atheist and atheism is not a religion.
    Sure it is...it takes just as much faith to believe what you do as what I do. First off you can not prove there is no God. You would have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to do that. And I doubt you have that.

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

    “Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#fX2DTI7mGjJbHiCx.99 http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/

    http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04/16/atheists-find-a-sunday-morning-connection-with-other-nonbelievers/

    They might not meet in churches but they meet up to discuss their worldview and beliefs.

    http://atheists.meetup.com
    And humanism a religion...so says the SCOTUS.

    http://vftonline.org/Patriarchy/definitions/humanism_religion.htm
    "Today, legalized abortion is like a chicken bone that's stuck in the throat of the American people. The abortion lobby will never be able to make them swallow it, and the pro-life movement will never let them just ignore it. And every once in a while, something comes along to remind them of those two realities." Mark Crutcher

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    Sure it is...it takes just as much faith to believe what you do as what I do. First off you can not prove there is no God. You would have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to do that. And I doubt you have that.

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

    “Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#fX2DTI7mGjJbHiCx.99 http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/

    http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04/...-nonbelievers/





    - - - Updated - - -



    Sure it is...it takes just as much faith to believe what you do as what I do. First off you can not prove there is no God. You would have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to do that. And I doubt you have that.

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

    “Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#fX2DTI7mGjJbHiCx.99 http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/

    http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04/...-nonbelievers/
    LOL! NOW you love the Supreme Court !!! Guess the SC is right with Roe v. Wade...right?

  10. #29

    Default

    heavy sigh,
    Please try to pay attention.
    the discussion was around religion and whether or not that is the basis for the argument that life begins at conception, as you can plainly see here the notion that it is a religious beleif solely is nonsense.

    If you don't want to be part of the discussion, don't let he door knob hit you where the good lord split you (on your way out)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post
    Who is lying, show me where I have ever said that human life doesn't start at conception .. you can't, read any reply from me where this subject turns up and you will see I have never disputed that human life starts at conception, so this is irrelevant and when aimed at me personally is nothing but a lie.
    Last edited by Whaler17; Apr 22 2013 at 07:08 AM.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. " - Not sure who

    "For those who don't know the difference, under capitalism the government works for you, under socialism/communism, YOU work for the government!" - Me

    "When the Electorate realizes they can vote themselves money from the Treasury, it will herald the end of the Republic." - Benjamin Franklin

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    And again another Pagan attempt at bringing up religion. Why can't you guys debate abortion just based on what the scientific community says. Why should any believer want to waste their time discussing this with people who just want to mock them no matter what they say?

    What is your motive?
    On the basis of Science the Pro Life position fails since ther is no concensus among scientists on the issue.

    That makes lifers either religious or ignorant.

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