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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2008, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
I know to who you refer to, and it's a little different because if the woman actually wants the baby, and that child is harmed, it's fetal homocide, because the mother has already chosen to keep the child.

Besides, I thought abortion was illegal in the States in 1969, if you are referring to the deaths of Sharon Tate and her unborn child?

Can anyone provide me with an explanation of why abortion was apparently legal in the US in 1969, despite Roe v Wade being passed four years later?
before roe v wade, states had control over whether or not it was allowed. after roe v wade, enforcing antiabortion laws was found to be unconstitutional.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2008, 05:43 PM
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before roe v wade, states had control over whether or not it was allowed. after roe v wade, enforcing antiabortion laws was found to be unconstitutional.
So depending on what State a person was in, someone could eithor be charged with a fetal homocide, or avoid one?

Interesting...
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:18 PM
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You know what's more interesting?

The vast majority of people who support abortion take that position with the firm conviction that life does not begin at conception. That being said...

If one personally felt "terminating pregnancy is not an easy thing"
but was the right of the individual to make that "decision" Is the life within the mother's womb a human person?

If the answer is no, it is not a human person, why would one feel it "is not an easy thing" to do?

If the answer is yes, it is a human person, why would one advocate "terminating" it?

If the answer is I don't know, if it is, or isn't a human person, how many more "decision(s)" would one make in an uncertain "situation"?

If the unborn is not a human person no justification for abortion is necessary.

However...
If the unborn is a human person, no justification for abortion is adequate.

Nearly all arguments for abortion are based on the faulty premise that the unborn are not fully human.



However, if you were go hunting in the woods, and shoot at someone, not knowing whether or not it was a deer but thought it was a deer and shot them anyway....


You would be charged with murder. Because despite your unceartainty, despite your rights, you have no right to kill another innocent human being. No matter what the hell you think. If you did a lot of thinking you wouldn't be shooting your gun on a "maybe" in the first place.
Last edited by Koga; 04-26-2008 at 06:20 PM.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2008, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
The vast majority of people who support abortion take that position with the firm conviction that life does not begin at conception.
Life, as such, does begin at conception. It's a potential life, a life that could possibly grow and become a baby, or it could be miscarried or aborted, etc. It's a life, and I do believe that, but I don't believe that life is too inportant at this early stage, as there are no assurances that it will continue to grow.

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If one personally felt "terminating pregnancy is not an easy thing" but was the right of the individual to make that "decision" Is the life within the mother's womb a human person?
The life is only a human person if the woman believes it is. It's personal opinion, see. The law states that a fetus is not legally a person, but that doesn't mean people can't have their own opinions. Some women see the fetus as being a person, others don't. It just depends on your beliefs, and how strong they are.

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If the answer is no, it is not a human person, why would one feel it "is not an easy thing" to do?
You mean: 'Why is abortion so traumatic if women wanted to abort'?
I don't know, but I would say, personally, that it is because the decision to abort was reached too quickly. Not enough thought went into the decision, and there were regrets afterward.

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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
If the answer is yes, it is a human person, why would one advocate "terminating" it?
I don't think many pro choicers see the fetus as a person, anyway, so they wouldn't advocate termination if this is what they believed.

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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
If the answer is I don't know, if it is, or isn't a human person, how many more "decision(s)" would one make in an uncertain "situation"?
This one has confused me, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
If the unborn is not a human person no justification for abortion is necessary.
However...
If the unborn is a human person, no justification for abortion is adequate.
Whether the fetus is considered to be a person is not the point. The law could state the fetus is a person, but this doesn't mean abortion laws will be overturned.
The law states that death row inmates are people, yet it doesn't stop them from executing them.

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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
Nearly all arguments for abortion are based on the faulty premise that the unborn are not fully human.
Human, yes. It must be human in order to become a human. A fetus cannot start off as an animal, for example, and then become a human at some stage. It begins as a human, and is born a human.
Human does not necessarily mean person, though.

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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
However, if you were go hunting in the woods, and shoot at someone, not knowing whether or not it was a deer but thought it was a deer and shot them anyway....

You would be charged with murder. Because despite your unceartainty, despite your rights, you have no right to kill another innocent human being. No matter what the hell you think. If you did a lot of thinking you wouldn't be shooting your gun on a "maybe" in the first place.
You would be charged with manslaughter, I'd think, as with murder, it must be proven that you intended to kill that person.
Saying 'You have no right' makes this sound like the intention was to kill a person, which you have stated it wasn't. You describe an accident, and nothing more.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:27 PM
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<<<Personal Attack Removed>>>


If I killed someone cause I didn't believe they were a person, I'd be in prison.


So what gives some choicetard the right? Does a vagina give you a magic threshold over right and wrong that doesn't apply to everybody else?


Maybe we should just pop roofies in the mouths of all the choicers and stick them on a boat to North Koreia.

A boat that's on fire.

And not one of them natural fires either, but those chemichal fires that just keep burning.


I support choice when it comes to those who would choose.
Last edited by Metrophobe; 04-27-2008 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Personal Attack, Inappropriate Language
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:37 PM
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If I killed someone cause I didn't believe they were a person, I'd be in prison.
The law considers me a person, right? So if you killed me, you'd be charged for that, because to kill a person is a crime.
But if the law ruled that I was NOT a person, you could kill me and get away with it, as I am a non person, and killing a non person is not a crime.

This is abortion - because the fetus is not considered a person under law, a woman is allowed to abort her pregnancy, because under law, she is aborting a non person, and is not committing a crime.

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So what gives some choicetard the right? Does a vagina give you a magic threshold over right and wrong that doesn't apply to everybody else?
No, what gives a woman a choice is the fact that the fetus resides in her body, and legally, she is allowed to remove the fetus from her body if she wishes to.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:52 PM
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This is abortion



You know by the way you go on and on about laws I'd think you were some facist right-wing nut. <<<Inappropriate Language>>>


What would you do if your almighty law decreed a fetus was a person? You going to accept that too?


What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. The law is not the absolute definition of right and wrong.


And if you think it is then shutup, don't vote, and get back to work. Because you are a slave to the state. And slaves don't have a voice.
Last edited by Metrophobe; 04-27-2008 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Inappropriate Language
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:59 PM
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What would you do if your almighty law decreed a fetus was a person? You going to accept that too?


What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. The law is not the absolute definition of right and wrong.


And if you think it is then shutup, don't vote, and get back to work. Because you are a slave to the state. And slaves don't have a voice.
Look, Koga, I have been trying to respect your opinions on the subject. I could have started ranting about your opinions, but I haven't. The least you can do is show respect for my stance on the issue.

Now, to your question. If the law decided that a fetus was a person, I would take that on board. Don't forget I mentioned personal opinion - the law simply decides what is right and wrong, or rather, legal or illegal, but it doesn't mean we cannot form our own, personal opinions on something.
No one is going to prevent you from believing abortion is murder, and that the fetus is a person. You are entitled to your views, after all.

About this statement: 'What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. The law is not the absolute definition of right and wrong'.

No, it isn't, I agree with you there. For example, the law in some US states has decided that the death penalty should be legal. I disagree with the death penalty, because I don't believe it is right. The law does, but despite that fact, I am not forced to think that it is okay, as I have my own opinions on the subject.

The point is that everyone sees things differently. What may seem wrong to you may seem right to another person. That's why there are so many differing opinions on this subject.
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Old 04-26-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quite the contrary, I gave you a challenge you could not holdup against.


Explain to me in detail why I should respect the opinion of an evil bastard. <<<Personal Attack Removed>>> Would you ask me to respect Hitler?
Last edited by Metrophobe; 04-27-2008 at 07:55 AM. Reason: PA
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Old 04-26-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quite the contrary, I gave you a challenge you could not holdup against.
I've held up against hundreds of anti abortion arguements. I'd be quite happy to hear yours.

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Explain to me in detail why I should respect the opinion of an evil bastard. <<<Personal Attack Removed>>> Would you ask me to respect Hitler?

It would your choice as to whether you respect Hitler or not.
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