Political Forum  

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Abortion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:41 PM
DanishDynamite's Avatar
DanishDynamite DanishDynamite is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 450
DanishDynamite will become famous soon enough
Credits: 1,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
It's a life, but it's not life with potential to become a person until they come togeather. At that point, it is a dormant person. Just like a person in a coma has a right to have their life looked after even though they have no concious though, so does that sperm and egg as it has the potential to come to conciusness.
So the question asked in the OP was wrong? The question was not "when does life begin" but rather "at what point could a lump of cells be said to potentially become a human being"?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:52 PM
Makedde's Avatar
Makedde Makedde is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kangaroo Flat, Australia
Age: 24
Posts: 949
australia au victoria 2
Makedde will become famous soon enoughMakedde will become famous soon enough
Credits: 3,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
So the question asked in the OP was wrong? The question was not "when does life begin" but rather "at what point could a lump of cells be said to potentially become a human being"?
That sounds like a fairer question. Everyone will have varying opinions of when life begins, and I don't even think science knows for sure.
__________________
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~ Ernest Gaines
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:00 PM
JeffLV's Avatar
JeffLV JeffLV is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
usa us nevada
JeffLV will become famous soon enoughJeffLV will become famous soon enough
Credits: 2,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
That sounds like a fairer question. Everyone will have varying opinions of when life begins, and I don't even think science knows for sure.
I compare this to the situation of a person in a coma. They have a potential to come to consciousness, so we protect their life.

Likewise, a sperm and egg, once they come together, has a similar strong potential to come to consciousness, possibly even more so than some comatose people.

This potential exists only when the sperm and egg comes together. Thus a sperm and egg separate are not a person.
__________________
True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:03 PM
Makedde's Avatar
Makedde Makedde is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kangaroo Flat, Australia
Age: 24
Posts: 949
australia au victoria 2
Makedde will become famous soon enoughMakedde will become famous soon enough
Credits: 3,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
I compare this to the situation of a person in a coma. They have a potential to come to consciousness, so we protect their life.

Likewise, a sperm and egg, once they come together, has a similar strong potential to come to consciousness, possibly even more so than some comatose people.

This potential exists only when the sperm and egg comes together. Thus a sperm and egg separate are not a person.
When the sperm and egg come together, the egg is fertilised. Do you believe this is a potential life? If so, is it a life like yours, or different?

I guess we can also determine whether a comatose person is likely to wake up from the coma, more than we can say for sure whether that embryo will become a fetus, or fetus become baby, etc.
__________________
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~ Ernest Gaines

Last edited by Makedde; 04-18-2008 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:06 PM
DanishDynamite's Avatar
DanishDynamite DanishDynamite is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 450
DanishDynamite will become famous soon enough
Credits: 1,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
That sounds like a fairer question. Everyone will have varying opinions of when life begins, and I don't even think science knows for sure.
Well, that's easy to answer then. A fertilized egg in the womb of a woman has this potential.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:06 PM
JeffLV's Avatar
JeffLV JeffLV is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
usa us nevada
JeffLV will become famous soon enoughJeffLV will become famous soon enough
Credits: 2,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
When the sperm and egg come together, the egg is fertilised. Do you believe this is a potential life? If so, is it a life like yours, or different?

I guess we can also determine whether a comatose person is likely to wake up from the coma, more than we can say for sure whether that embryo will become a fetus, or fetus become baby, etc.
It's a life like mine as much as a person in a coma is. They are not conscious, but they have a strong potential to come to consciousness. Just as I would want myself protected when I was in a coma, so to would I want my developing body.
__________________
True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:30 PM
Makedde's Avatar
Makedde Makedde is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kangaroo Flat, Australia
Age: 24
Posts: 949
australia au victoria 2
Makedde will become famous soon enoughMakedde will become famous soon enough
Credits: 3,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
It's a life like mine as much as a person in a coma is. They are not conscious, but they have a strong potential to come to consciousness. Just as I would want myself protected when I was in a coma, so to would I want my developing body.
Many people in coma's do awaken, but many do not, and we know whether someone is likely to become concious again by brain scans. A brain dead person in a coma has no chance of ever becoming concious again, so this person is not the same as a fetus, who has a developing brain, an active brain - would you agree?
__________________
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~ Ernest Gaines
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:58 PM
beachbum beachbum is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 290
usa us florida
beachbum will become famous soon enough
Credits: 1,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okamifujutsu View Post
For those of you who believe life begins at conception, at what point during conception does life begin? Is it when the the sperm first enters the egg? If so, at what depth of penetration does life begin? Is it alive once it gets through the corona radiata, or the zona pellucida?

Is it when their membranes join together? If so, how completely do they have to be joined?

If you think it's when the genetic materials combine, at what point in the combining process is it technically alive? How about when the pronuclei membranes dissolve? When the mitotic spindle forms? When the genetic material is aligned in the metaphase plate? Or when it's seperated and the two new nuclei form?

And keep in mind that all these things are processes, so please specify whether it has to be 100% complete to count as a seperate human being, or if 99.99% is good enough.

If you need reference, Wikipedia is a good place to go.

So, at what point in the conception process does an egg become a person? Or is it just an arbitrary point in the development of a newborn?
technically, since both the egg and the sperm are alive at conceptions, life doesnt begin again unless both the egg and sperm die when they are joined and then come back to life.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 11:18 PM
JeffLV's Avatar
JeffLV JeffLV is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
usa us nevada
JeffLV will become famous soon enoughJeffLV will become famous soon enough
Credits: 2,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
Many people in coma's do awaken, but many do not, and we know whether someone is likely to become concious again by brain scans. A brain dead person in a coma has no chance of ever becoming concious again, so this person is not the same as a fetus, who has a developing brain, an active brain - would you agree?
I would agree, which is all the more reason why this developing body may have even MORE protection entitled to it over someone in a coma, at least as much as those who are shown able to wake up again.
__________________
True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008, 12:39 AM
Makedde's Avatar
Makedde Makedde is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kangaroo Flat, Australia
Age: 24
Posts: 949
australia au victoria 2
Makedde will become famous soon enoughMakedde will become famous soon enough
Credits: 3,709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
I would agree, which is all the more reason why this developing body may have even MORE protection entitled to it over someone in a coma, at least as much as those who are shown able to wake up again.
Should the developing fetus be given more rights, though, even if those rights (such as the right to life) interfere with the mothers choices?
__________________
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~ Ernest Gaines
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google Yahoo Furl Reddit

Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Let the Inquisition Begin! apotropoxy Latest World News 0 11-24-2006 07:44 AM
Let the fun begin! stekim Current Events 48 07-02-2005 02:01 PM
Let the spending begin raytri Current Events 17 11-05-2004 07:00 PM
Let the healing begin MerlinX Media & Commentators 1 11-04-2004 02:48 PM
Low-life scum cop-killer only gets life in prison TeenRepublican Current Events 26 08-19-2004 09:20 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Release Candidate 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4