Just step aside from what you are pre-disposed to think and read what you just posted--"I dont see a problem with killing any child".

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"If God can work through me, He can work through anyone."--St. Francis Assisi

"While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart."--St. Francis Assisi

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe. "--St. Augustine

She isn't necessarily doomed to suffer.

Would we Jews still exist if we worried about delivering a baby into a world of suffering?

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Voting for McCain just because he is Republican is just like voting for a Killer Whale just because he is also called a whale.

Voting for Obama is like voting for a flounder because he is really flat, but surrounds himself with sand to make himself look more interesting.

That's actually a very good point. If the Jews did take that approach, my dad, and consequently I, would not even exist (though I'm sure that might make some of you a little bit happier)

__________________
"If God can work through me, He can work through anyone."--St. Francis Assisi

"While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart."--St. Francis Assisi

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe. "--St. Augustine

touche. no defense here

I apologize that I couldn't be asked to read every post in this very long thread, so if I restate anything that's been said already, I'm sorry.

I'm pro-choice. And I wouldn't blame a mother for thinking it was the right choice to abort in a case like this.

But I think it's despicable to call this little girl a creature and say she has no chance at a good life. I mean, Makedde, I realize that you apologized for the choice of words, but I find it almost impossible to overlook what you said just based on a quick apology. I don't believe your words were carelessly chosen... I don't think a person says something that extreme unless they mean it. I'd like to hear how you justify even daring to type something like that out in the first place. I could see if it slipped out in conversation, but this is an internet forum... you have time to edit yourself. How can you justify calling a human child with a sever deformity a creature and say that it can't even be called a baby because of her appearance alone?

And I have to add, if you are really pro-choice, why? I mean you seem more pro-abortion than pro-choice to me. And yes, there IS a huge difference. Pro-choice means that one believes a woman has a choice while a fetus is still within her body to terminate the pregnancy if she so choses because it is her body. But you seem to be proposing that there are certain cases in which it is morally wrong for a woman not to abort, which in my opinion is much less pro-choice and much more pro-abortion. Ending the life of a fetus is a serious thing. This is not to say I equate it with murder, but to say that there are situations in which a woman must abort just seems cold and heartless to me. It completely contradicts the spirit of the entire pro-choice movement in my opinion. The decision of the mother is sovereign. No one can calculate, as you clearly stated yourself, what Juliana's life will be like in the future, or how she will feel about it. Let the mother's decision be hers.

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Educate Yourself... See Both Sides of the Issue:

against: http://www.dhmo.org/

for: http://www.armory.com/~crisper/DHMO/

I apoligised, but only because some people were offended. I still hold the opinion I did, though.

I will admit that I meant what I said. I look at her and I don't see a child at all. And yes, it isn't fair to judge someone entirely on their looks, but that's just the way I feel. I can't change that.

As I said, I don't see Julianna as a child. I said that I see her as being a 'creature' because that, to me, is what she is. I don't expect other people to feel the same - but there will be people out there who will agree with me, just as there will be people out there who will agree with you.


I see myself as being pro choice, bordering on pro abortion.

I do believe that there are times when women SHOULD abort. That's just an opinion, obviously I am not going to force my opinion on people, but I'll merely state it, and say that sometimes, abortion should be encouraged, even expected.

I hope she is a happy child, I really do. But I fear for her when she gets older and realises she is different. It WILL be hard for her, especially when she goes to school. Is she going to cope with that? I don't know. Will her parents regret having given birth to her? I don't know that eithor.

The problem I have with these people is that they KNEW what horrible deformity Julianna was suffering from, and they CHOSE to have her anyway. I do not believe her parents thought about Julianna's future, or about the countless surgeries they would put her through as soon as she was born. I don't believe they considered her at all - I think the only two people they thought about was themselves, and that is selfish.
Whether people are against abortion or not, if they find they are carrying a child who will suffer a deformity like Julianna's, they owe it to their child to really think about bringing her into the world. They need to decide whether they are considering the childs future, or their own beliefs on abortion.

There may be some people out there who would have had Julianna simply because they were against abortion. That would be putting their beliefs before the welfare of the child.

If people want to have their deformed children (for lack of a better word) then go right ahead - but sit down and think about the childs future, consiered what the childs life may be like, and then make a decision. Don't make the decision based on your own beliefs, there will be another person to consider.

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Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

I'm a Tarte! What! You Want Somma This?

I can see how you might think abortion was the right choice in this situation. I can't say that I wouldn't think so as well were the choice up to me. And I'm perfectly comfortable with people holding controversial opinions. I am past the issue of whether or not she should have been aborted. I don't care about that now. I want to address why I think your opinion is so disturbing, because I think my reasoning needs to be made more clear.

I just think that calling a human child with all the thoughts, emotions and inner life as any other human child a "creature" just because they have sever physical deformities is pretty disgusting, especially coming from someone who must have, in their lifetime, heard some pretty nasty things said about them just because they didn't fit someone's ideas of normal. Juliana is not a "creature". Calling her a creature is akin to calling a black person or a homosexual a creature. It is absolutely analogous to racism and homophobia. Because someone looks a certain way or was born with a different set of characteristics, they are automatically sub-human... in the eyes of bigots.

You can talk the pretty talk about opinions all you want. It doesn't change the fact that what you said and how you feel is a very real form of bigotry. And I hate to break it to you, but it's people who hold those same views as yourself who will make her life difficult. Don't blame her parents because you can't handle her. Blame yourself!

__________________
Educate Yourself... See Both Sides of the Issue:

against: http://www.dhmo.org/

for: http://www.armory.com/~crisper/DHMO/

__________________
The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

I'm a Tarte! What! You Want Somma This?

As long as there is balance, you don't care about evil?

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Voting for McCain just because he is Republican is just like voting for a Killer Whale just because he is also called a whale.

Voting for Obama is like voting for a flounder because he is really flat, but surrounds himself with sand to make himself look more interesting.