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Old 05-02-2008, 07:52 AM
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Why does just the deformity matter? What if its a girl and you want a boy or vice versa? What if you find out that the child will be gay or missing a finger?

It is a very slippery slope when you try to determine which people are the right people to kill.
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by beachbum View Post
your stupidity amazes me... you really think that looks matter that much? for all you know, that child could be the next Einstein.. you think she should have been killed because of how she looks? how is your view any different form the nazis or the racists that killed blacks just because they looked different? you, along with them, base you reasoning on looks..

btw.. stephen hawking also has deformalities.. do you think he should have been killed off at birth if the parents knew that? einstein was the same way. what about him? just because you dont look, act, or think "normally" doesnt mean you dont have the right to live.
Are you flogging kidding me? next Einstein? The freaking thing doesn't have a brain, bum! It isn't aesthetic or cosmetic. You blind, ideological twit, look at the freaking thing!
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I literally think the opposite. The way FoxNews presents information, they try much harder and go out of their way to respect the public's intelligence, far more so than the so-called "liberal" news media.
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Old 05-02-2008, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
I feel so sorry for the young girl who gave birth to this creature. I don't think we can call it a baby, it is so horrifically deformed. It is saddening, however, that something so horrible can go wrong.
If you were that horribly disfigured would you regret being born? To put it another way, if tomorrow you were in a horrible accident and your face ended up like that would you kill yourself or keep living? I don’t think having someone not exist is in their best interest even at that point - although if they decide it for themselves its a different issue. There is such a point, comatose and in constant pain would be at or past it, but it isn’t simply being ugly. For best perspective consider what you would put in your living will as it makes the person being considered a primary concern rather than a problem to be solved and moved past (which gives a bias to killing and beign done with).
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Seigi View Post
If you were that horribly disfigured would you regret being born? To put it another way, if tomorrow you were in a horrible accident and your face ended up like that would you kill yourself or keep living? I don’t think having someone not exist is in their best interest even at that point - although if they decide it for themselves its a different issue. There is such a point, comatose and in constant pain would be at or past it, but it isn’t simply being ugly. For best perspective consider what you would put in your living will as it makes the person being considered a primary concern rather than a problem to be solved and moved past (which gives a bias to killing and beign done with).
You have no idea what you are talking about.
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I literally think the opposite. The way FoxNews presents information, they try much harder and go out of their way to respect the public's intelligence, far more so than the so-called "liberal" news media.
I'm speechless.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Seigi View Post
If you were that horribly disfigured would you regret being born? To put it another way, if tomorrow you were in a horrible accident and your face ended up like that would you kill yourself or keep living? I don’t think having someone not exist is in their best interest even at that point - although if they decide it for themselves its a different issue. There is such a point, comatose and in constant pain would be at or past it, but it isn’t simply being ugly. For best perspective consider what you would put in your living will as it makes the person being considered a primary concern rather than a problem to be solved and moved past (which gives a bias to killing and beign done with).
I honestly didn't expect this to get so heated. Perhaps I phrased my words wrong, it was not my intention to offend people, simply to ask how severe a deformity must be before you make the decision to abort.
Obviously, we are all going to have varying opinions, and I would like to hear, from those who would continue with a pregnancy, knowing their child would look like Julianna.

Yes, she has a fully functioning brain, so she does have the mental capacity to understand one day that she looks different. She's smart enough to know this, but I question what her future will be like.
Why are parents concerned more with the here and now than the childs future?
Do they make a decision based on what they want?
Do they consider the childs future?
Why would someone give birth to a child they knew would not look 'normal' yet put that same child through literally hundreds of surgeries to make her appear more normal, and more acceptable? I simply don't see the point of putting such a young child through all the pain and trauma of facial and cranial reconstruction. It's not going to be easy for her. I feel more for Julianna than I do for her parents - after all, Julianna is the one undergoing surgery, she is the one who has begun to endure taunts on the school playground, and they will only get worse - have her parents considered what action they will take when it gets out of control?

To answer your question, if I were in an accident, and disfigured, I may well decide I am better off dead - depending on the disfigurement, of course.
If my life would be filled with pain and misery, where society judges me for the way I look, obviously it's going to be very hard for someone to look past that, and appriciate themselves. Maybe you could do it, but I couldn't.
It's a very sad fact. but society does judge us on our looks.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MasTequila View Post
Why does just the deformity matter? What if its a girl and you want a boy or vice versa? What if you find out that the child will be gay or missing a finger?

It is a very slippery slope when you try to determine which people are the right people to kill.
I can start another thread for the topic of 'gender selection' if you like, but I created this thread specifically to get peoples opinion on how severe a deformity like Julianna's must be before they will abort, if at all.

It's interesting to discover that even some pro lifers (not on this forum, yet) would abort a child like Julianna, yet others wouldn't.

The reasons why are what I'm interested in hearing.
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I greatly appreciate your ad hominem attack. It brings a smile to my face to see such an ancient tradition still in practice. You are, in fact, correct. I know nothing of the situation; rather, I hit keys randomly and by some act of God (and spellcheck) readable sentences emerge. Since they've beaten the odds to get here perhaps you could address them?

In response to Makedde:
I'm not heated, that's how I often comment - a listing of thoughts that I used to arrive at my conclusion.

In clarification, I too believe the child should be the focus (if not the entirety) of the decision. And there is certainly a point where life can be a curse. However I'm concerned that many would rationalize that a child would be better off not being born before it became true. That girl will endure never ending taunts from her peers. Home schooling seems promising. As long as she looks like that her life will be of a significantly lower quality. But I do not think that her life won't be worth living, or that it isn't at least worth letting her choose for herself. I also think the pain of the surgery is likely preferable to the stigma of that image, so if life with the look is worth it, life with surgery to fix it is even more worth it.

In hindsight to my prior argument, there is a major flaw: if I had such a face tomorrow morning I would have the mental fortitude of an adult to endure the stares and ridicule and the pain of the surgery. Big difference. But I doubt that in 20 years she'll look back and wish she'd never been born.

To conclude that you would give up is a very acceptable answer, it allows one to stop pondering life in such a state, but is it really true? Assuming that the disfigurement was cosmetic one would only suffer a loss in socialization - one would still be able to interact with family and interact socially through anonymous means (you could still talk to us, that alone is worth living for, right? ). It would cause a major depression, to be sure, but it doesn't necessarily require a suicide. Is social interaction all that makes life living?
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Seigi View Post
I greatly appreciate your ad hominem attack. It brings a smile to my face to see such an ancient tradition still in practice. You are, in fact, correct. I know nothing of the situation; rather, I hit keys randomly and by some act of God (and spellcheck) readable sentences emerge. Since they've beaten the odds to get here perhaps you could address them?
But, you really truly don't know what you are talking about. My statement was a description of the situation. I could make it more ad hominem if you want me to.
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
I literally think the opposite. The way FoxNews presents information, they try much harder and go out of their way to respect the public's intelligence, far more so than the so-called "liberal" news media.
I'm speechless.
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Old 05-03-2008, 12:55 PM
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It may be that the 19yrs old daughter of her austrian father/grandfather who as the austrian police spokesman said is in hospital due to an "illness caused by incest"

What if this means she is pregnant by her grandfather/father, which means if this child is born, he would be the childs father,grandfather and great granfather I think,a sort of tripple whammy.

Would you abort or not
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Old 05-03-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
It may be that the 19yrs old daughter of her austrian father/grandfather who as the austrian police spokesman said is in hospital due to an "illness caused by incest"

What if this means she is pregnant by her grandfather/father, which means if this child is born, he would be the childs father,grandfather and great granfather I think,a sort of tripple whammy.

Would you abort or not
No I wouldn't.
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I literally think the opposite. The way FoxNews presents information, they try much harder and go out of their way to respect the public's intelligence, far more so than the so-called "liberal" news media.
I'm speechless.
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