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Old 05-08-2008, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
Could you live without having sex?
I could certainly live without ever murdering my baby.



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Also, it depends on your definition of murder. Legally, abortion isn't murder, so it is simplt personal opinion as to whether or not you believe abortion is murder.
No necessarily..... If a person murders a pregnant woman he can be charged with both the murder of the mother and the murder of her aborted unborn baby.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:27 PM
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No necessarily..... If a person murders a pregnant woman he can be charged with both the murder of the mother and the murder of her aborted unborn baby.
Not in my state.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by submarinepainter View Post
Abortion should never be used as birth control
I think it is by definition birth control.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:13 PM
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Ive invented a new form of birth control, I place a pebble in one slipper and go limp.

There are many enjoyable sexual acts that do not require vaginal penetration,requests for information to Mrs B L Zeebub she will respond by plain envelope

Which reminds me of the joke about the Rear Admirals virgin daughter who married an ablebodied Seaman.

The night before the wedding the Rear Admiral had a chat with his daughter about sex, he ended with the statement that your future husband being a seaman may ask you to do it "the other way" he told her appart from it being a sin it hurt like hell! he would not explain further!

For 6 months the newly weds were at it like rabbits, the noise of there passion could be heard all over the ship!

One night after a very intense session she found herself bored with what had taken place, so looking for something different and not knowing what, she asked her husband in all innocence "lets do it the other way"

His reply was "What and risk having babies
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
I could certainly live without ever murdering my baby.
But could you live without having sex?

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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
No necessarily..... If a person murders a pregnant woman he can be charged with both the murder of the mother and the murder of her aborted unborn baby.
Not over here. Your laws are a little different to ours. You have a law of Fetal Homocide, I believe, and this only comes into play when a woman is made to miscarry when she is harmed by another person. The law also comes into play if it is apparent the woman intended to keep her child. At least, I think this is how it works.

Over here, because the fetus is not legally a person, it has no rights. Now, I myself don't believe a fetus is a person until birth, but at the same time, I would be horrified if a woman were made to lose her baby, and charges were not laid. At most, the charge would be assault causing grevious bodily harm - note the fetus is not mentioned? It's almost as if it doesn't exist, and in the eyes of our law, it doesn't.

I would support fetal homocide laws, because if a woman intends to keep her child, no one has the right to take that choice from her. If fetal homocide laws were introduced in Australia, however, I would worry that the law regarding personhood would be changed, meaning the fetus is considered a person.

I don't think this is the case in the US, though...can anyone from the US confirm whether or not a fetus is considered a person? If not, how does such a law as Fetal Homocide come into play, seeing the fetus is not a human being and therefore cannot be 'murdered'?
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
Just because a woman has sex, does not mean she consents to pregnancy and therefore, birth. Consent may be given to sex, but it is never given to pregnancy or birth unless the woman wants to go through these.
Consent has no bearing on the morality of abortion. Abortion is the murder of the innocent baby, not the killing of the rapist who did it to you. Emotional trauma is not justification.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
Consent has no bearing on the morality of abortion. Abortion is the murder of the innocent baby, not the killing of the rapist who did it to you. Emotional trauma is not justification.
As I have already stated, it is personal opinion as to whether abortion is murder or not, as legally, abortion is not murder.
Rape is a justification for abortion, because the womans mental heath comes first. Her recovery from her ordeal is far more important than an unborn child.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kufnaka View Post
I just decided to come back to this site after a several moth hiatus, and would like to bring up a new argument against abortion.

After several debates with my friends, it's become obvious that there's no logical way to reconcile abortion as murder with it being justified in cases of rape or maternal danger. Therefore, I've come to accept the fact that abortion is not murder. However, we can argue that the sole act of participating in sex makes the individual give 100% consent into birthing the child. At the same time, we can allow abortion in cases of rape/coerced incest without any moral contradiction because in these cases no consent was given to the sex and therefore not the birth. Also, because consenting to do a job doesn't mean you consent to getting cancer from poor work conditions, we are logically justified in in saying that women do not consent to possible death during childbirth when consenting to sex.

I'm really, truly trying to find a way to reconcile moral/religious arguments against abortion with logic and legality.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:26 AM
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I don't think this is the case in the US, though...can anyone from the US confirm whether or not a fetus is considered a person? If not, how does such a law as Fetal Homocide come into play, seeing the fetus is not a human being and therefore cannot be 'murdered'?
Like with a great many things, the U.S. is not consistent. It's a hallmark of our government. When it comes to abortion the fetus is not considered a person. However, if you kill a fetus in the commission of a crime it is considered a person. This is because we have federal laws and state laws. States are free to make killing a fetus in the commission of a crime against state law. But they cannot ban abortion because of Roe v. Wade.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
But could you live without having sex?


Sex is a desire, it is not a need.

That is my response to the abortionist supporter.

The argument that people need sex and that abortion should be around because of "mistakes"

By arguing that sex is a basic need, like air, food and water, you argue that we are essentially animals driven by our needs.

We are of course driven by our needs...we all need air, food and water...

Sex is a desire however, it is not necessary to sustain life.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 05-09-2008 at 10:30 AM.
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