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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2004, 01:05 AM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
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Originally Posted by rwspin";p=&quot View Post
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If it were my body, regardless of legality I would do was I saw fit and let the lawyers look like preying vermin if they dared to prosecute me.
...would you really be willing to spend the rest of your life in prison on a murder charge just for the sake of standing your ground on what you believe should be your right? That may be an exaggeration of the likely sentence for an illegal abortion, I don't know, but the pro-lifers here in the U.S. are basically pushing for that.
It depends on the issue and how strongly I felt, but I would be willing to face whatever came in front of me in order to stand up for my inidividual rights. At least I would like to think so. You never know until it happens. Plus just for clarification, committing suicide is not against the law. Attempting to commit suicide is. They can't prosecute if you get it done properly.

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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2004, 07:47 PM
Col-Rouge Col-Rouge is offline
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Default Better to die on ones feet than live on ones knees

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwspin";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col-Rouge";p=&quot View Post
If it were my body, regardless of legality I would do was I saw fit and let the lawyers look like preying vermin if they dared to prosecute me.
...would you really be willing to spend the rest of your life in prison on a murder charge just for the sake of standing your ground on what you believe should be your right? That may be an exaggeration of the likely sentence for an illegal abortion, I don't know, but the pro-lifers here in the U.S. are basically pushing for that.
I use an expression on another site - which I omitted here, for lack of feature, it is "There is dignity in standing alone when right"

similar sentiments such as "better to die on ones feet than live on ones knees" applies.

I am a believe and follower of the rule of law as enshrined under democratic principles. I will defend the legally enshrined rights of women to decide whether to abort or not. The only way the anti-abortionist will make abortion "illegal" will be by subverting the democratic process. They have murdered in the name of their belief (and attempted to justify it by their perversion of interpretation and illogical rationalism), that puts them in the same catagory as terrorists.
We do not allow terrorists to frame statute, we should not allow anti-abortion terrorists to frame statute.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2004, 05:34 PM
Deva Deva is offline
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Default good debate!

Wow, this has been turning into a good debate.

Let's look at it like this: women have been terminating their pregnancies for MILLENNIA. And they will CONTINUE to do so! If abortion is made illegal, there will still be people who administer it. Doctors will have to resort to more rudimentary operations which will inevitably endanger the mother. Right now abortion is safe. Think of that coat hanger, do women deserve that?

Frog, you say it's women's rights vs. fetal rights....... but the fetus is not an independent, competent being. I am a woman, I am a human, I am an individual. Why deny me a right to my OWN body?
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2004, 05:14 PM
Col-Rouge Col-Rouge is offline
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Default Simple Reason

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Originally Posted by Deva";p=&quot View Post
Wow, this has been turning into a good debate.
Reading back over the posts, it is because both sides of the "divide" have tried to stick to "reason" and avoid "judgemental rant"

Respect for and tolerance of differing views is what makes a democracy.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:15 AM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deva";p=&quot View Post
Wow, this has been turning into a good debate.

Let's look at it like this: women have been terminating their pregnancies for MILLENNIA. And they will CONTINUE to do so! If abortion is made illegal, there will still be people who administer it. Doctors will have to resort to more rudimentary operations which will inevitably endanger the mother. Right now abortion is safe. Think of that coat hanger, do women deserve that?

Frog, you say it's women's rights vs. fetal rights....... but the fetus is not an independent, competent being. I am a woman, I am a human, I am an individual. Why deny me a right to my OWN body?
I think that in the end what you said is the most important point. I don't feel trhe Gov't or anyone for that matter has the right to tell a woman she has to bear a child. That's why i am Pro-Choice, it's a matter of respecting people's opinions. If you are against abortion, cool, don't have one then. But don't hate or stop people who don't carry the same beliefs as you. I've never heard someone say they are Pro-Abortion. People who are Pro-Choice respect just that, choice. Everyone has the right to choose. You make your choice, I make mine. We respect each others right to do so.

-Demosthenes
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2004, 09:24 AM
rwspin rwspin is offline
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Default anyone see on the news...

those new enhanced ultrasound high-resolution pictures? Pretty remarkable - shows the baby simulating running motions, and sort of smiling - I think they said at something like 12 or 16 weeks! This is going to go a long way in support of pro-lifers.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2004, 04:25 PM
Col-Rouge Col-Rouge is offline
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Default Blowing in the wind

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Originally Posted by rwspin";p=&quot View Post
those new enhanced ultrasound high-resolution pictures? Pretty remarkable - shows the baby simulating running motions, and sort of smiling - I think they said at something like 12 or 16 weeks! This is going to go a long way in support of pro-lifers.
Most babies look like they are smiling when it is actually wind.... whilst wind is unlikely in the pre-born and since no one has let a baby in on the joke I guess a smile is simply a reflex action. As for running... same agian.. babies move in the womb as any mother or father knows.... Leg movement is regulated by the fact that legs aer attached at the hip... any movement is going to look like running.

I would suggest the presence or absence of images will make no difference to an individuals choice.
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Old 07-01-2004, 01:06 AM
Demosthenes Demosthenes is offline
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I don't think thiese types of images should play a role in the issue of abortion, but I do think that they will make a difference for some people on the individual level.

-Demosthenes
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:02 AM
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Default pictues

I want to see these pictures. I dont think they are that bad.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:12 AM
SporkLord SporkLord is offline
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Default Somewhat related

On Rammstein's Mutter album, the front and back cover have a very eerie picture of a stillborn baby. It's weird, it's not scary, but...odd.

Do a google image search for "Mutter" and you'll find it.
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