People have been killing other people since the dawn of man. And they will continue to do so. Murders have to resort to rudimentary forms of murder that can cause undo pain and anguish upon their victims. This isn't a rant for or against abortion as much as it is a rant against this form of logic. It's flawed and can easily lead to moral runaway (much like thermal runaway in diode lasers).

The thing with abortion that makes it a very difficult issue is that it relies entirely on morality and opinion. There is no scientific evidence or definitions that can prove when life starts. If you believe that life begins at conception then it is obvious that abortion is murder. If you don't then it is obvious that others are trying to impress their moral and religious beliefs upon you. This is the rub. With such strong beliefs on both sides, compromise on this issue is not accepted. And the on side will completely refuse to see where the other side is coming from since the conclusions they have drawn are obvious to them. This issue will never be resolved unless (and this is extremely unlikely) science can somehow define and pinpoint conclusively when life starts. Till that time, I fear we must live with a compromise and have both sides pissed off.

Remembering that "Pro - Choice" is as it says, "Pro - Choice", I see no need to argue with an anti-abortionist on whether she should have an abortion, I leave it to her to "make her choice".

The facts are simple. Some individuals will always disagree with the Anti-abortionists' view of the world. When "anti-abortionists" can accept and tolerate the authority of the individual and recognise the authority of a woman to decide how her body will be used then there will be no debate. The ranting, raving and murder of Doctors and people involved in the administration of abortion by fascist extremists will cease. The chant of the Anti-abortionists will be replaced by democratic tolerance and respect for the rights of individuals.
None of this is difficult, it boild down th respecting other people to make their choices, regardless of how upsetting they may be to one's own senses and sensibilities.
"Tolerance" is something which is in short supply but it can be "acquired" and should be taught in schools.

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Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

I have a feeling that science will end the debate for us in the future. Technology will be discovered that will make it possible to remove a fetus at any point and and be able to bring it to term. I don't know how far into the future this will be, but I also don't see us settling this debate in teh near future. I am Pro-Choice and agree that a woman has domain over her own body and whatever is inside of it, but there are many who disagree with that and I haven't seen too many people who have switched sides on this issue.

-Demosthenes

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Improved and more effective contraceptives and genetic research into identfying causes of handicaps etc will help to remove many of the "needs" for abortions.

I will always support "Pro Choice" not because I relish or have any comfort with the matter of abortion but because "sovereignty of the individual" is paramount in my personal ethic and value system. Remove individual sovereignty and we are reduced to mere chattels of the State - and we fought the 2 world wars and a cold war to prevent that.

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Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

so are you against wanking?

Do you mind if I ask what your avatar is?




BTW, Wanking would be considered a good thing as it would ultimately cut down on abortions.

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Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. - Theodore Roosevelt

my avatar is a fetus dressed in a suit. It represents the fact that it could have been life, and been a businessman or whatever. but of course it also shows the absurdity of the concept that at the end of the day, it wasn't born and looking at it you can realize that theres a distinction between a human being and part of the reproductive process, just like sperm, eggs, whatever.

sperm is a "wasted potential of life"

p.s if people believe abortion is not for them, then fine!....but why force it onto other people?

also, these people say that they love fetuses and their right to live....but can't even look at them! doesn't say much that they are so repulsed by them that the can't even stand to look at waht they're trying to save. and thats not fetuses in suits...thats normal, basic photographs. doesn't agrue well that they're humans to a right to live, if they're not human enough to look at with out feeling sick.

I think the reason some people can't look at aborted fetus photos is because they're dead, not because they're fetuses. Ultrasound pics are a different story.

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Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. - Theodore Roosevelt

in a photo theres no contrast between a dead and a sleeping person. it's not like half the face has been blown of or something.