I'd say it's kind of the same thing, because you give yourself nutrients and water, don't you? Whereas your daughter gets her nutrients from the food and water you put in your body. She relies on you to feed her because she can't do it herself, whereas you can.

This is one of those 'agree to disagree' situations, I think.

I'll agree with this, only because I can't think of a come back right now!

I'm with you here - I can't kill spiders eithor. Sometimes I do, but I prefer to sweep them up and put them outside. Everytime I've killed a spider, I've wondered 'Do they feel it? Do they feel fear, too'? Maybe they do, I don't know. Because I don't know, it's hard to kill them.


The difference here could be that you want your baby, whereas women who give there babies up for adoption may not want them, although I'd have to think that if you didn't want the baby, whats the point of giving it up? I know some women feel they have no choice but to give their baby up for adoption, because they don't have the support, or don't feel they are capable. These women are the ones likely to suffer with their decision, as they are the women who really want their children, but feel they should be able to have them.

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Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

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With respect to adoption, that's my point - whether you want the baby or not would come into it for only a very, very small percentage of women as they near the end of their pregnancy. I wasn't exactly over the moon with this pregnancy to start with, either. It was accidental and there was some not very good stuff happening in my life at the time but I could not and would not abort.

But after a certain point your body takes over - and that includes your mind. Of course, I had a positive outlook about it and so had changed my attitude within a short time - a few weeks - but part of what happens when you are pregnant is that your hormones take over and your brain actually, physically re-wires itself. It has to - otherwise nobody would put up with the negative aspects of pregnancy. Feeling attachment to and wanting your baby isn't entirely under your control. That's why adoption would be soooo difficult. Women who started out not wanting their babies end up being attached to them regardless.

I wake up at night sometimes in a complete panic because I have dreamed that something happened to my baby. And this is coming from someone who was adamantly never, EVER having children. And neither was my partner. And you should see us now. One of our favourite things to do is go into her room and play with her clothes. Go figure.

It's only in a small percentage of that cases that some kind of attachment doesn't form when you are pregnant.

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Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

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I feel that abortion is wrong and I also feel it needless to look at any pictures.

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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

Guys, I need more credits! Half a million by end of year! Agna is making an appeal for them, but don't give them to him! Donate to ME only, please!

I think looking at dead people who have been basically ripped up is repulsive. Praying on peoples emotions is not the issue that disgusts me. What disgusts me is the evil act that occurred before the picture was taken.

A picture will influence my opinion for a short time, facts are what I look for when making a decision.

Usually when that happens it's because of post natal depression. I have bipolar disorder and so am at a significantly increased risk of post natal depression. So this is something I've considered in depth and I have carers and doctors looking after me to make sure it doesn't happen, and if it does, that I will have the best possible care to get through it.

It was also what led to my decision to stay on my medication throughout pregnancy and breast feeding. The risk to myself coming off my treatment is far greater than the risk to my child by my staying on it, so the decision was made for me to not change anything about my management of my illness. So far everything is going along swimmingly - but the danger is the first few months after she's born.

Not bonding with your child is not a natural occurrence or a natural state. It's normal that it can happen - but it shouldn't continue, that's not normal. Thankfully these days there is a far greater awareness of this kind of thing happening, and women are far less alienated as a result - but rather encouraged and supported and treated. If they are given enough information to begin with to recognise it if it happens.

Motherhood doesn't come naturally to everyone, but having said that, there are many, many women out there who have been pleasantly surprised by their feelings about it - and many who haven't. It's a difficult time. No doubt about that. Being open and honest about what you're going through is the best approach - in all circumstances. It's easier said than done, but that is really only up to the individual to decide.

I do have to acknowledge that I am speaking from a position of education, privilege and superior medical care. This is far from the case for many, many women, and so I can really only speak about my own situation.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

I see it as she got pregnant then she has a responsibility to the child.

You do not have the right to murder someone else because you do not want it. That child has the right to life.


ADOPTION No one is saying she has to raise that kid. But she has a responsibility to ensure it's rights are seen to.

Now you did not use rational logical thought when answering my question.

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So because the woman chose to have sex, and despite the fact she may have been using contraception, she falls pregnant, which is somehow her fault, and therefore she must be forced to use her body as an incubator for a fetus for nine months - do I have that right?

Murder is a personal opinion. Legally, abortion is not murder, and many people hold the personal belief that it is not murder, as do I.

I think I used enough logic. I also think that we should not be contributing to the millions of unwanted children out there - when they are waiting for an adoptive family to come along, they are likely in foster homes. Foster carers are paid money by the Government. Guess where the Governemt gets that money from? That's right, the taxpayer, you and I. The more unwanted childred out there, the more foster carers needed, therefore the more money needed to pay them, so we have yet another rise in taxes.

If abortion was cheaper, and was taxpayer funded (which I am not 100% sure it is) would you support it as opposed to adoption, even if adoption would cost you more money?

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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

Guys, I need more credits! Half a million by end of year! Agna is making an appeal for them, but don't give them to him! Donate to ME only, please!

I think looking at photos of 'ripped up dead people' is repulsive, too - but what is more repulsive is the fact that that 'ripped up dead person' may actually be a miscarriage, passed of as an abortion.
If this were the case, how would you feel? Would you look at other abortion images differently?

What if the facts were completley different to what the photo may initially say? Like I said, that 'abortion' could actually be a miscarriage. You have no way of knowing if it is a real photo of the aftermath of a real abortion - people only rely on what they see, they don't consider that photos can be made to look like something completely different.

I used to rely on photos, too, I'd hold them up as proof as what abortion really is - there was once I time I believed it to be murder, and I thought all those photos were real. But then I spoke to a few people, who actually worked for an abortion provider, and they explained to me that sometimes, photos can be manipulated, to seem like something other than what they actually are. They asked me how I knew for certain that the photos were real. You know something? I couldn't answer, because I just didn't know.

I would say that the majority of abortion images are real, it's a very few early abortion images that unsettle me, and the late term abortion images that make me unsure that the photo may not necessarily be what it seems.

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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

Guys, I need more credits! Half a million by end of year! Agna is making an appeal for them, but don't give them to him! Donate to ME only, please!