Thread: Dissent and Democratic Reform in China

Originally Posted by tksensei

There's plenty of racism in China, just as there is everywhere else.

I am glad that you admit the existence of racism everywhere else, which of course includes Japan and the US. At least when you made such a remark, you were not so drunk at that moment.

Originally Posted by tok3z

........The Uygur rioters in Urumqi in 2009 were terrorists who went around the city brutally attacking the elderly, women and children...

Well said. Welcome aboard, tok3z. Our friend waltky never replies in the forum. He just likes to murmur everything to himself like an old granny.

You have put up a good show in your debate with Albert in another forum. Keep it up. I look forward to see you trouncing him in the debate.

Ty reedak... I'm sure if waltky won't argue his points then someone else will on his behalf...
They tag out when losing debate so that someone else can regurgitate the same talking points that have already been addressed...

Dem Chinese peoples need to be able to speak out more so the gov't know what's on dey's mind...

US mayor lectures Chinese official on freedom of speech
Mon, Sep 10, 2012 - Beijing is fighting to have an artist’s mural promoting independence for Taiwan and Tibet removed from a brick wall in the small town of Corvallis, Oregon.

Two officials from the Chinese Consulate General in San Francisco have written to the mayor of Corvallis about the mural and last week visited the town to lodge a formal complaint. “As you are aware, the First Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees freedom of speech in this country and this includes freedom of artistic expression,” Corvallis Mayor Julie Manning has told them. She has refused to do anything about the 3m by 30m mural, which was painted last month on the wall of an old building by Taiwanese-born artist Chao Tsung-song. The vividly colored mural was commissioned by the building’s owner, Taiwanese-born David Lin, who is determined to leave it there.

It depicts “images of Taiwan as a bulwark of freedom,” Chinese riot police beating Tibetan demonstrators and Buddhist monks setting themselves on fire to protest Chinese rule. The wall on which the mural has been painted is part of a building being redeveloped by Lin as a restaurant. “There is only one China in the world and both Tibet and Taiwan are parts of China,” the letter to Manning from the Chinese Consulate General said. “To avoid our precious friendship from being tainted by so-called ‘Tibet independence’ and ‘Taiwan independence’ we sincerely hope you can understand our concerns and adopt effective measures to stop the activities advocating ‘Tibet independence’ and ‘Taiwan independence’ in Corvallis.”

After Manning replied saying that she had no authority to regulate art and could do nothing about the mural, Vice Consul Zhang Hao and Deputy Consul General Song Ruan visited the town last week. The two officials met with Manning and City Manager Jim Patterson. Patterson later told the Corvallis Gazette-Times: “They expressed their concern and the concern of the Chinese government about the mural on Mr Lin’s building. They viewed the message as political propaganda.” After making it clear that the city could not — and would not — order the mural’s removal, Manning and Patterson agreed to pass on Beijing’s concern to Lin. “We also had a conversation with them about the US Constitution,” Patterson said. The Taipei Times was unable to reach officials for comment at the Chinese embassy in Washington or the consulate in San Francisco.

Lin told the Corvallis Gazette-Times that no representatives of the Chinese government had contacted him directly. However, he said that friends and family were concerned they might face some form of retaliation if they visited China. “I am under a lot of pressure to take down the mural, but have no plans to do anything of the sort,” he said. “I’ll just keep it the same, I’ve got to live my life, that’s all.” Lin was born and raised in Taiwan and went to the US in the 1970s. He said that he was a strong supporter of a free Tibet and an independent Taiwan.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fron.../10/2003542391

Originally Posted by waltky

Dem Chinese peoples need to be able to speak out more so the gov't know what's on dey's mind...

Don't worry, when "dem Chinese people" speak out, their voices are loud and clear, as seen in the widespread protests across China on 15 September.

As shown in the history of the Boxer Uprising and Taiping Rebellion, they could speak out with earthshaking and devastating impact .

Thousands protest at Japanese embassy in Beijing
http://za.news.yahoo.com/thousands-p...125744687.html

Anti-Japan Protests, Beijing - Sept. 15 2012 [1]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyH4RzrtT_w

Anti-Japan Protests, Beijing - Sept 15 2012 [2]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH_cP0xkjg4

Boxer Rebellion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

Taiping Rebellion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

The protests on 15 September were eerily reminiscent of the beginning of the Boxer Uprising a century ago. The protesters were frustrated with their government's cosmetic measure of sending a few patrol ships to play merry-go-round at the disputed Diaoyu Islands. Some of the protesters even called for a war against Japan.

A century has passed since the Boxer Uprising, and China has entered the Space Age. The country has become the world's second largest economy, yet the mentality of a section of the population remains the same. The spirit of Ah Q still refuses to go away.

This forebodes more trouble for the government if it does not respond effectively (except waging war) to the Japanese move.

And watch the ever increasing unrest, when the Chinese economy stalls out due to American and European loss of consumption ability. Print all the money you want, and it will never make up for the 50 million + middle class manufacturing jobs that have been destroyed, and replaced with jobs that consume rice, a scooter, and coal.

... the Japanese devils are too evil...

China protests mix colonial anger, modern dispute
Sep 18,`12 -- Old wounds amplified outrage over a burning territorial dispute Tuesday as thousands of Chinese protested Tokyo's purchase of islands claimed by Beijing and marked the 81st anniversary of a Japanese invasion that China has never forgotten.

China marks every Sept. 18 by blowing sirens to remember a 1931 incident that Japan used as a pretext to invade Manchuria, setting off a brutal occupation of China that ended only at the close of World War II. Demonstrations are not routine, but this year, as Chinese fume over last week's Japanese purchase of long-contested islands in the East China Sea, they spread across the country. Outside the Japanese Embassy in Beijing, thousands of protesters shouted patriotic slogans and demanded boycotts of Japanese goods. Some burned Japanese flags and threw apples, water bottles and eggs at the embassy, which was heavily guarded by three layers of paramilitary police and metal barricades. "We believe we need to declare war on them because the Japanese devils are too evil. Down with little Japan!" said Wang Guoming, a retired soldier and seller of construction materials who said he came to the embassy from Linfen in Shanxi province, 600 kilometers (400 miles) away, to vent his frustration.

In another part of the capital, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta had a lengthy meeting with China's national defense minister, Gen. Liang Guanglie, during a three-day trip that U.S. officials have said Panetta will use to press China to seek ways to peacefully resolve its territorial disputes. Liang told Panetta that China was "resolutely opposed" to the islands' inclusion in the terms of a U.S.-Japan mutual defense treaty, and hopes the U.S. will honor its commitment to maintain a neutral stance, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. Protests also took place in Guangzhou, Wenzhou, Shanghai and other Chinese cities. Japan's Kyodo News agency reported protests in at least 100 cities, and said people threw bricks and rocks at the Japanese Consulate in Shenyang in China's northeast. However, Shenyang police said by telephone there was no unrest.

China's authoritarian government rarely allows protests, and the wave of anti-Japanese demonstrations clearly received a degree of official approval. Many Japanese businesses across China shut their doors as a precaution following recent protests that turned violent and saw the torching and looting of Japanese-invested factories and shops. The nationalist fervor spread to the Internet, where users of the popular search engine Baidu saw a huge Chinese flag planted on a cartoon image of the contested islands, which China calls the Diaoyus and Japan calls the Senkakus. And all members of China's elite badminton team, who scored multiple gold medals in the London Olympics, pulled out of a Japanese tournament that began Tuesday.

The islands are tiny rock outcroppings that have been a sore point between China and Japan for decades. Japan has claimed the islands since 1895. The U.S. took jurisdiction after World War II and turned them over to Japan in 1972. The disagreement escalated last week when the Japanese government said it was purchasing some of the islands from their private owner. Japan considers it an attempt to thwart a potentially more inflammatory move by the governor of Tokyo, who had wanted not only to buy the islands but develop them. But Beijing sees Japan's purchase as an affront to its claims and its past calls for negotiations. Beijing has sent patrol ships inside Japanese-claimed waters around the islands, and some state media have urged Chinese to show their patriotism by boycotting Japanese goods and canceling travel to Japan.

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China evictin' it's people outta their homes...

China evictions increase, leading to more unrest
October 11. 2012 -– China says it has worked hard to overhaul its judicial system in ways that better protects human rights, but one of the country's most widespread abuses is increasing and is a leading cause of unrest.

The forced eviction of residents from their homes and farmland has quickened over the past three years, human rights group Amnesty International said in a report issued Thursday. Evictions make up the leading cause of protests here, especially in the countryside. Homeowners have been risking violence and jail to prevent their ouster and protest the often inadequate compensation offered by developers and officials. "Millions of people" have been evicted "without appropriate legal protection and safeguards," and often with violence, Amnesty said. "The problem of forced evictions represents the single most significant source of popular discontent in China and a serious threat to social and political stability," said the group, citing Chinese academic research.

An increasing number of those being evicted have turned to self-immolation as a desperate protest of last resort. In a recent example, police in northeast China last month shot and killed a man who had set himself on fire while resisting a demolition crew. The official explanation from police was that the officer had acted in self-defense. Forced eviction "has become a routine occurrence in China and represents a gross violation of China's international human rights obligations on an enormous scale," said the Amnesty report 'Standing Their Ground,' which looked at evictions from February 2010 to January 2012. Violent forced evictions are increasing as local authorities, often highly indebted, seize land and sell it off to developers to meet bank repayments for funds borrowed to finance projects, Amnesty said.

Income from the sale of land rights to developers represents local governments' single largest source of revenue. And officials looking for promotion also rely on developing land to deliver the high growth rates their superiors demand, the group said. Of 40 forced evictions Amnesty examined in detail, nine culminated in the deaths of people protesting or resisting eviction, including Wang Cuiyan, 70, who was buried alive in March 2010 when resisting a demolition crew at her house in Wuhan city, Hubei Province. Amnesty said it found 41 cases from 2009-2011 of people lighting themselves on fire to protest evictions, compared with fewer than 10 cases reported in the previous decade.

Former homeowner Hu Cheng understands the level of desperation that provokes such extreme steps. Since his apartment in the southwest city of Chongqing was demolished in December 2010, Hu has been detained by police several times and beaten twice he says for trying to sue local government for a higher rate of compensation. "I think the central government is good, and so is their white paper on judicial reform, but they don't know what goes on in local areas" which are very corrupt, said Hu, 40. Uniformed and plainclothes police now watch his rented apartment, he said. "If there's really no way to continue, I will go to the city government and set myself on fire," Hu said.

More http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...tions/1626821/

See also:

Fears of runaway pollution crisis in China as THIRD river mysteriously turns white
11 October 2012 - Industrial dumping of chemicals thought to be major cause of bizarre colourings; Last month the city of Chongqing woke up to find their river had turned red; Locals complain they cannot use rivers for livestock drinking water or for washing and cleaning

Furious villagers in eastern China are demanding the closure of a new stone quarry after it turned their river completely white. Residents in Aodi, Zhejiang province, say the river is now so heavily polluted that they can't use it for drinking water for their livestock, nor are they able to water their crops. They say that since the quarry opened a few years ago, the water regularly turns white, as the quarry bosses use the river to drain away residue caused by blast-cleaning white stones, which are cut from pits beside the river. One local resident told reporters: 'Our animals can't drink it, it poisons the fields and we can't even wash our clothes in it. We want this quarry closed now.'

It is just one of a number of rising concerns about water in China - it is not the first time rivers have taken on different hues - and there are regularly reports of everything from pollutants to dead bodies found in waters used for cleaning and drinking. Last month a milky white river in Jiangsu city turned white, and included a bad smell. The reasons for the colour change is still not known - but researchers discovered that there are now no living animals reported to be found in the 10 meter wide body of water. There were reports in July of how a natural latex polluted more than a mile of the Quxi River in China’s Wenzhou City, Zhejiang Province. The river also turned into a 'river of milk', which is blamed on a local latex company in the region.

Resident Xiao Wu said: 'Only yesterday, I was doing my laundry in the river, and yet this morning it’s turned completely white, as though somebody poured milk into it.' This also follows a case of an orange river in Jiaxing city created by excessive iron ions in the water last March. Last month, the residents of Chongqing woke up to find the Yangtze river, which runs through the city in south-western China, coloured a bright shade of orange-red. While officials investigate the cause of the colouring, one fisherman went about his daily business as if nothing had happened. Others were so amazed that they collected samples in water bottles.

Although the cause is yet to be determined, it is not the first time a river has turned red in China. Last December, the Jian River in the city of Luoyang, in the north Henan province, turned red after becoming polluted by a powerful dye. The dye was being dumped into the city's storm drain network by two illegal dye workshops. Officials raided the factories to shut them down, and then disassembled their machinery. According to chapter 16, verse 4 of the Bible's book of Revelations, one of the signs that Armageddon is near will be an angel pouring a bowl into the rivers, turning them into blood.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2912IVOTe

Granny says, "Dat's right - dey want dey's MTV...

Survey: Half of Chinese like U.S. ideas on democracy
Oct 16,`12 -- People in China are increasingly worried about corruption, inequality and food safety, according to a survey that also found that about half of Chinese like American ideas about democracy.

Chinese citizens have become far more concerned about domestic quality-of-life issues over the past four years, the Pew Global Attitudes Project report on attitudes in China found. The new attitudes highlight the challenges China's new leadership will face when it assumes power in a once-in-a-decade transition next month. China's runaway growth in recent decades has led to a yawning gap between rich and poor and worsening pollution. The Communist Party has said repeatedly that pervasive corruption threatens its hold on power.

Most Chinese say they are better off financially, according to the Pew survey, but inflation remains their top concern, with 60 percent saying it's a "very big problem," though that figure was down from 72 percent in 2008. Half of the respondents said corrupt officials are a major problem, up from 39 percent four years ago. The gap between rich and poor was the third biggest concern, with 48 percent of respondents citing it, up from 41 percent in 2008. Concerns over the safety of food and medicine have increased the most. In 2008, 12 percent said food safety was a major problem; this time, after numerous food scandals involving products from baby powder to pork, the number more than tripled to 41 percent.

Quality of life issues are coming to the foreground in China as average incomes rise and leisure time increases, said Steve Tsang, a professor of contemporary Chinese studies at the University of Nottingham, who wasn't connected to the survey. "People have to live with them on a daily basis," he said. "When one was too busy making a living to get bothered by them in the past, less attention was paid to them. Now that the overall standard of living has improved and individuals have more scope to slow down and reflect a bit, the poor quality of life becomes more of an issue."

The survey released Tuesday indicated a small increase in the embrace of U.S. democratic ideas - up to 52 percent, from 48 percent in 2007 - though it was unclear whether that reflected a real increase, because the difference was smaller than the poll's margin of error. A decrease in the number of people rejecting American democratic thought was more dramatic, down to 29 percent from 36 percent in 2007.

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Originally Posted by waltky

Granny says, "Dat's right - dey want dey's MTV...

Survey: Half of Chinese like U.S. ideas on democracy
Oct 16,`12 -- People in China are increasingly worried about corruption, inequality and food safety, according to a survey that also found that about half of Chinese like American ideas about democracy.

Grandpa says, "Dat's right - dey want dey's food stamps...

Food stamps provide a necessary service to millions of Americans. Without it, millions of Americans, including millions of children and elderly people, would have nothing to eat. However, there are numerous issues with the food stamp program, none of which have easy solutions.

Ever since the housing collapse triggered the recession that began in 2008, millions of Americans have been battered and beaten down, struggling to find jobs and stay afloat during this dire crisis in their lives. They watch as this government that should be attacking these problems has become totally dysfunctional, collapsing under the weight of a broken and corrupted political system.

Since half the Chinese population like American ideas about democracy, why not send them over to the US in exchange for half the American population, so that those Chinese dreamers can experience the struggle of finding jobs and staying afloat in the US?

Growing Anger, Despair and Frustration Across America; The Calm Before the Storm?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Gro...10907-170.html

Food Stamps in America – Readers Weigh In
http://cashmoneylife.com/food-stamps...ders-weigh-in/