Thread: Rudd or Gillard, your prediction as of Thursday, 23 Feb. 2012

Originally Posted by axialturban

WTF LOL, its not just the Catholic Church, its any group where men have too much authority over children without overwatch. Way to go to avoid focus on the problem and promote the sensationalism instead. Makes you sound like your issue is with the church and not paedophilia itself!! Suicide happens for lots of different reasons anyway and if the worst you can hassle Katter for is representating the problems faced by his constituents then its a pretty weak argument.

I agree, personally I don't think Katter should be allowed out unmmedicated, but yes he is doing what he is supposed to do, representing his constituents. Seems to me that when someone does that, we all come down on them. That IS their job, that's why it's called the House of Representatives.

Originally Posted by axialturban

WTF LOL, its not just the Catholic Church, its any group where men have too much authority over children without overwatch. Way to go to avoid focus on the problem and promote the sensationalism instead. Makes you sound like your issue is with the church and not paedophilia itself!! Suicide happens for lots of different reasons anyway and if the worst you can hassle Katter for is representating the problems faced by his constituents then its a pretty weak argument.

The problem about the catholic church is that the abuse is institutionalised. They are not random acts by individuals but are clearly designed to normalise abuse among new priests. There was an organisation called the St Gerrard Majella Society in Parramatta. All the senior priests would indoctrinate novitiates by raping them. It was going on for decades but when word got out about it a paedophile was appointed to the position of vicar general and asked to investigate the rapes. He had a kid come to him to complain about being abused by a teacher in a catholic school and the vicar general abused him.
All the senior priests and the vicar general ended up in prison.

Anglican archbishop Hepworth was a victim of the same catholic clergy's version of a welcome to the priesthood. He was raped by three priests and, surprise surprise, the catholic church offered him compensation for being raped by the two priests who are now dead but denied any crime committed by the currently still alive priest.

A priest, James Fletcher, in Newcastle raped a child and the bishop admitted that the money collected when the plate was passed around at christmas was used to help pay for his lawyer.

Ronald Conway was a psychologist who assessed candidates to the priesthood and part of his assessment involved masturbation. This was generally known by the senior clergy. Cardinal Pell gave him a glowing epitaph when he died but then that wasn't unusual because Pell was known to turn up at court to give moral support to paedophiles instead of the victims. Risdale was one of the rapists openly supported by Pell.

If you want to know a little about the institutionalised nature of the rapes check out the Broken Rites website.
http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/

When you read some of the stories you will wonder why a judge can give a man life for a rape of a woman but give a priest 3 years with time off for good behavior after raping dozens of children.

Originally Posted by AdrianW

As for Katter, you've got to be kidding. His favourite rant is the suicide rate among farmers. He doesn't know or doesn't care that lathe operators are far more likely to suicide than farmers and the rate among the medical profession is double the farmer's rate - but let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Looks like Katter can't do anything right in your opinion. He champions the fight against suicide in farmers yet you demean him for it. What have you got against farmers and farm workers? Farm owners and workers have a suicide rate more than twice the national average, that is a FACT mate. But you run Katter down for trying to do something about it, he is just ranting according to you. JEEEZZZZ, I can't believe the ignorance of some people on this forum!

Originally Posted by Recusant

Briefly, it's important to note that we all exploit. As i said, the greater the wealth, the greater the exploitation. This is a generalisation of course. It's common sense if one knows anything at all about our economic system. Corporations profit more the more they exploit, and those who invest in them reap the benefits of it. It doesn't need explanation, it's logical.

That is just pure cr@p!

As i said before, i don't want to go into the many other reasons as unlike you i don't spend countless hours wandering around this forum while contributing remarkably little. I haven't the time. I spend more time reading than i do spouting. You should try it.

You don't want to go into the many other reasons for hating 'rich people' because you know that they are all just pure cr@p as well! Your hatred of 'rich people' sounds to me no different to the baseless hatred of a racist.

Originally Posted by AdrianW

The problem about the catholic church is that the abuse is institutionalised..

Why the thread derail, did you get diddled by a priest and feel the need to talk about it here? Its a complex issue, of he said she said, or he said he said. Its a fact that kids do lie about serious things like this, its sometimes what kids do. Its also a fact that pedo's have been and probably are still serving priests and assualting innocent children. Religion isnt for everyone, its a bit too deep for most people and many who dont walk away when they should end up going nutz whether angry and accusational or abusing other people. Kids are trapped and so cannot walk away so either run away or try and take down their oppressor in anyway they can. The church used to try moving the priest if a complaint was made, and this way they would watch to see where another complaint was made.... if it was made from the child again its likely the child is lieing, but if it happened against the priest again at the new location then it was likely the priest. Its one way of determing likeleehood of guilt in a circumstance where no evidence exists. The church has been around for thousands of years so its institutionalized practises from long ago. No-one says they are perfect, but rambling on about it doesnt achieve anything because they are adjusting. If you want to talk about Hepworth which isnt really a new story, then start its own thread.

Originally Posted by axialturban

Why the thread derail, did you get diddled by a priest and feel the need to talk about it here? .

That's about the most disgusting attempt to justify doing nothing about the rape of children I've seen for a while. It's called Rape, not diddling. Your use of the term 'diddled' and your reference to the fact that a kid might lie seems to point to which side of the paedophilia debate you sit on.

It's not a thread derail. Adultmale made the comment that he would be supporting Katter's party. My post was directly related to Katter's myopic efforts to cut the suicide rates among a specific part of the economy. Katter's focus seems to be on a specific industry in a small corner of the country and yet he wants people to take a new national party seriously. One thing he could highlight is that in the driest continent on earth many farmers are trying to farm the wrong crops in the wrong place and use up scarce water resources.

My assertion was that if you want to cut suicide in Australia you start with the most common cause which is child abuse. Then you deal with the suicide rate among indigenous communities. Then you deal with the diminishing manufacturing industry which tends to indicate why a lathe operator is four times more likely to suicide than a farmer. Then you deal with the health industry which has a suicide rate double that of farmers.
A national government doesn't govern for the smallest most sparsely populated areas of Australia that's why the Country Party chose to rebadge themselves as the National Party. Check any National party member's website and you will find their focus has shifted from the country to a national focus.
Katter's party is the Aussie version of the US teaparty which will never be taken seriously while it seeks to appeal to the redneck vote.

Originally Posted by AdrianW

That's about the most disgusting attempt to justify doing nothing about the rape of children I've seen for a while. It's called Rape, not diddling. Your use of the term 'diddled' and your reference to the fact that a kid might lie seems to point to which side of the paedophilia debate you sit on.

It's not a thread derail. Adultmale made the comment that he would be supporting Katter's party. My post was directly related to Katter's myopic efforts to cut the suicide rates among a specific part of the economy. Katter's focus seems to be on a specific industry in a small corner of the country and yet he wants people to take a new national party seriously. One thing he could highlight is that in the driest continent on earth many farmers are trying to farm the wrong crops in the wrong place and use up scarce water resources.

My assertion was that if you want to cut suicide in Australia you start with the most common cause which is child abuse. Then you deal with the suicide rate among indigenous communities. Then you deal with the diminishing manufacturing industry which tends to indicate why a lathe operator is four times more likely to suicide than a farmer. Then you deal with the health industry which has a suicide rate double that of farmers.
A national government doesn't govern for the smallest most sparsely populated areas of Australia that's why the Country Party chose to rebadge themselves as the National Party. Check any National party member's website and you will find their focus has shifted from the country to a national focus.
Katter's party is the Aussie version of the US teaparty which will never be taken seriously while it seeks to appeal to the redneck vote.

Australian Politics 101
For those that do not seem to understand.

We elect a person to represent US, whether we be a farmer in outback Queensland, or a doctor in Macquarie Street Sydney, smoking bongs in Nimben or working in the mines in WA. Their primary job is to represent their constituents, their needs and problems. It is their sworn duty to stand up in the House of Representatives and represent their constituents.

The leader of the ruling party is asked to select a cabinet from any elected member of Parliament. It is then their job, as well as representing their constituents, to overseer the portfolio/s assigned to them.

However some very misguided people think that if they do try to represent their constituents then they are doing the wrong thing, unless of course it's YOUR representative, then of course they are doing a good job.

Originally Posted by AdrianW

That's about the most disgusting attempt to justify doing nothing about the rape of children I've seen for a while. It's called Rape, not diddling. Your use of the term 'diddled' and your reference to the fact that a kid might lie seems to point to which side of the paedophilia debate you sit on.

Blah, I didnt try to justify anything, so what are you disgusted at again? I used the term diddle in a question to you, because it was a question where specificity was not of interest to me.

Originally Posted by DominorVobis

Australian Politics 101
However some very misguided people think that if they do try to represent their constituents then they are doing the wrong thing, unless of course it's YOUR representative, then of course they are doing a good job.

Tell that to the people who heap scorn on Rob Oakshott who is my local member. They keep saying that he betrayed the country when in fact, because of the power he wields, he has done an incredible amount of good for his electorate.
The National party members in adjacent state and federal electorates have even gone to the extent of blaming him for road deaths on the Pacific Hwy because he got more money for Lyne that their electorates. They seem to ignore the fact that people like Luke Hartsuyker was in the Howard government and did nothing for the Hwy upgrade in his electorate while he had the chance. Now the NSW LNP government look like they will reneg on their election promise to complete the entire upgrade by 2016.

Originally Posted by axialturban

Blah, I didnt try to justify anything, so what are you disgusted at again? I used the term diddle in a question to you, because it was a question where specificity was not of interest to me.

You seem to be an apologist for paedophiles. You used the term "diddled" to describe the abuse and rape of children. It's the sort of term that would be more appropriate in a school playground.
You justified the suck-it-and-see action of moving a priest to a new parish to see if he does it again. Your quote was "Its one way of determing likeleehood of guilt in a circumstance where no evidence exists." You have to laugh at someone who believes that moving a criminal to new territory where they can easily commit the same crime in order to catch them is a good idea.

You seem to approach the whole subject from the point of view of whether the child is lying rather than whether the priest is a sexual predator.
You don't seem to understand the meaning of 'institutionalised'. Yes there are many cases of abuse where men and women have power over kids but in the case of the catholic church the abuse is organised and protected. As I said in another post the St Gerard Majella society was an organisation of paedophiles. They institutionalised the abuse and actually created future paedophiles by raping novitiates. The senior clergy actively protected these men as long as they dared. This has been duplicated in a number of parishes. When the church couldn't cover it up any more they liquidated the assets of the society to make it more difficult for victims to sue an organisation that no longer had assets.
I know many people, men and women, who were abused and I'd love to see their response to someone who described what happened to them as being diddled but then I get the impression that your use of this childish term probably means you're quite young so you could be forgiven for that.