Thread: The Carbon Tax - Debate

Yes, from your point of view, no minority government has a mandate to do anything. This doesn't actually reflect reality and the country can't stand still just because we have a minority government. I have a very hard time believing that you have ever voted for the ALP. Any party that doesn't have a majority is a "minority party", presumably you mean a minor party, and just no, the ALP won't be a minor party, unlike stupid Queensland we actually have a federal Senate.

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

ETS isn't a carbon tax, she said the election would be a mandate for a price on carbon, but she ruled out a carbon tax. And no matter how many times you, Tony Abbott and Alan Jones want to call it a tax, it will never actually be a tax. Unless you're telling me that John Howard was LYING in 2007 and he wasn't introducing an ETS with a fixed priced period, he was introducing a carbon tax that would cripple the economy? Can't have it both ways.

How about when Gillard herself states it is a carbon TAX. yet again you try and slip your lies through and yet again you lose credibility.

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

Yes, from your point of view, no minority government has a mandate to do anything. This doesn't actually reflect reality and the country can't stand still just because we have a minority government. I have a very hard time believing that you have ever voted for the ALP. Any party that doesn't have a majority is a "minority party", presumably you mean a minor party, and just no, the ALP won't be a minor party, unlike stupid Queensland we actually have a federal Senate.

I think what others have stated is that she is leader of a minority government, that is a lot different to a minority party. I think you may be putting words in peoples mouths. Ziggy it must be very hard to be a successful Labor STOOGE these days, given the state of the party.

Originally Posted by dumbanddumber

Gillard never had a mandate for a carbon tax or an ETS thats why she has been branded as the monumental liar she is.

And thats why federal labor will go the way of QLD labor and be reduced to a minority party.

As for the greens i hope they go the way of the democracts.

Mandate my backside which fairy tale are you reading.

If anything this government should have been a caretaker government because they weren't even elected.

And most labor voters voted fro Gillard (including me) cause she said there would be no carbon tax.

Australians are a patient bunch until the next election.

The liberal party have also lied. There was bipartisan support for an ETS, which they reniged on therefore lied about. Abbott had an evil plan to lead and control, and gained some friction on the greasy pole by simply allowing people to justify their self centred and greedy intentions at any cost. Carbon pricing is the initial stage of kickstarting the process of an ETS. It is not an ongoing bucket of funds that the government can rely on forever but will help the initial phase to counteract greedy mining companies who find it hard to part with what is essentially pocket money to them. Companies themselves will be forced to innovate or pay the price for pollution through trading with each other. No....it's not going to make a significant difference straight away but at least it is starting the ball rolling. Despite the tedious comment above, the anthropogenic argument is based on effects over a short period of time in history, which consequently has increased ever so dramatically since industrialisation...hmmmm. People should be embarrassed to allow Abbott's mantra and rhetoric bedazzle them. Just about everyone who argues the point about Carbon pricing parrotts his comments, without any originality in the argument..."Julia Lied"; "Carbon Tax"; "Bad for the economy"; "Nation Destroying";"won't do nothing for climate change". Abbott was so pissed off that he missed out on becoming ruler by the smallest margin, he'll carry on like a sulking child until he either gains power, gets the boot from his party or the people who will hopefully see through his evil disguise and nation destroying negativity.

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

Companies themselves will be forced to innovate or pay the price for pollution through trading with each other. "Bad for the economy"; "Nation Destroying";

If imports from Asia do not have the carbon tax & are already cheaper & this causes our remaining manufactures to move there then the pain will result in no global CO2 reductions but only a technicality of an Australian CO2 footprint reduction for Julia to gloat about.

Originally Posted by freddy62

If imports from Asia do not have the carbon tax & are already cheaper & this causes our remaining manufactures to move there then the pain will result in no global CO2 reductions but only a technicality of an Australian CO2 footprint reduction for Julia to gloat about.

Our carbon footprint is much higher than China's on a per capita basis. They've got 1.4 billion people to service and therefore will naturally have a higher carbon output. All nations are worried about climate change and rightfully so if your not a climate change agnostic for the sake of it, of who essentially have the greedy live for today attitude. It is quite prudent to get a head start on other countries who will inevitably introduce carbon pricing. China made 50 billion from renewable energy innovation last year and no doubt we'll have a significant slice of it due carbon pricing distribution. Manufacturing costs won't be as significant as the cost imposed by the GST. The only difference is the huge disparity of impositon between the two. GST=10% CP=0.7%

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

Manufacturing costs won't be as significant as the cost imposed by the GST. The only difference is the huge disparity of impositon between the two. GST=10% CP=0.7%

Perhaps if you are going to equate the GST to Carbon Tax, you should adjust the percentages of the GST to show the Taxes that where removed for the introducing of the GST. Such as Sales Tax and Whole Salers Tax just to name a few. From memory the sales tax was around 23% and I can honestly say I do not know the Whole sale tax reduction. Tell us what is going to be reduced accommodate this new tax?

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

Our carbon footprint is much higher than China's on a per capita basis. They've got 1.4 billion people to service and therefore will naturally have a higher carbon output. All nations are worried about climate change and rightfully so if your not a climate change agnostic for the sake of it, of who essentially have the greedy live for today attitude. It is quite prudent to get a head start on other countries who will inevitably introduce carbon pricing. China made 50 billion from renewable energy innovation last year and no doubt we'll have a significant slice of it due carbon pricing distribution. Manufacturing costs won't be as significant as the cost imposed by the GST. The only difference is the huge disparity of impositon between the two. GST=10% CP=0.7%

The per capita basis means nothing, its a useless statistic,i dont even know why its used.

The reality is China emitts 25% of all manmade CO2 emissions.

Australia emitts 1.5% of all manmade CO2 emissions.

How does this place us amongst the highest polluters?

Have a look at the graph in the second post of this thread.

As an example of why the per capita statistic is meanigless and just economic bullsh!t.

Real national net worth(a) per capita(b)
Between June 1999 and June 2009, Australia's real national net worth per capita increased from $287,100 to $314,200, equivalent to an average annual growth rate of 0.9%.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....wealth%20(5.2)

So does this mean that every man woman and child in Australia has a personal wealth of $314,200 each in their savings ?

We all know the answer to that !



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[QUOTE=dumbanddumber;1061282628]The per capita basis means nothing, its a useless statistic,i dont even know why its used.


It says it all buddy!! It's useless to you because there is no legitamate basis for your argument and this is the only shallow baseless rhetoric you have. So what you are saying is that China should emit our level of carbon. Plllleeasssse, they are entitled to live with the same standard of living as us, which means having to emit the same level of carbon per capita as us, but they don't. China actually profitted $50 billion in renewable energy innovation last year. While people like you are trying to justify our level of emissions and halting progress in this area, they are taking a large slice out of this industry. Gillard is on the ball, but people are continuing to listen to Abbott's rhetoric, which he definitely does not believe in, it is all part of his game to win power.