Thread: Our Tax Dollars

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

So Culldav what do you suggest ?

It is easy to sit back and point out the problems but it takes guts to suggest a remedy. Lets see how you go.

I understand the usual ‘lurker’ will most likely be reading this post and say: we (the people) cannot do anything to change the powers the politicians have given themselves without first having to change the constitution - and in some circumstances this may apply.

The first change I would like to see “all” politicians made to abide by the same laws as the general public. The second change would be for “all’ politicians to be just as accountable for their jobs as everyone one else, which means that if they do something that another individual in the private would be dismissed for - then they too should also be ‘instantly” dismissed. Bring politicians back to a level playing field with the general public, instead of allowing them to be perched up in their untouchable ivory towers.

If politicians are forced to work and live under the same constraints, guidelines and laws as everyone else, then maybe they will finally begin to understand how their decisions effect the population.

Right now, politicians are “out-of-control” children playing God with everyone else’s money and lives, but they don’t have to live under the same guidelines and constraints and their mortal counterparts - so how the hell do they know how their decisions effect the average man, woman & child not privileged to their God like rules that they are allowed to live by.

These are just a couple of examples where I believe taking away the power from these naughty children and putting back into the control of the adults (the people) is definitely the best option - the only option really.

Originally Posted by culldav

I understand the usual ‘lurker’ will most likely be reading this post and say: we (the people) cannot do anything to change the powers the politicians have given themselves without first having to change the constitution - and in some circumstances this may apply.

The first change I would like to see “all” politicians made to abide by the same laws as the general public. The second change would be for “all’ politicians to be just as accountable for their jobs as everyone one else, which means that if they do something that another individual in the private would be dismissed for - then they too should also be ‘instantly” dismissed. Bring politicians back to a level playing field with the general public, instead of allowing them to be perched up in their untouchable ivory towers.

If politicians are forced to work and live under the same constraints, guidelines and laws as everyone else, then maybe they will finally begin to understand how their decisions effect the population.

Right now, politicians are “out-of-control” children playing God with everyone else’s money and lives, but they don’t have to live under the same guidelines and constraints and their mortal counterparts - so how the hell do they know how their decisions effect the average man, woman & child not privileged to their God like rules that they are allowed to live by.

These are just a couple of examples where I believe taking away the power from these naughty children and putting back into the control of the adults (the people) is definitely the best option - the only option really.

Ok fair calls. Now these changes would need to be legislated. How do we get around this ?

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

Ok fair calls. Now these changes would need to be legislated. How do we get around this ?

Change our constitution back to the way it was, before these parasites changed it to give themselves omnipotent power. Make changes in the constitution that politicians “are” no longer lawless, and allowed to live in a world of their own making; make them work and live under the same system as the general public with NO exceptions.

It might be a radical idea, but it believe it would be a fairly basic change to the constitution.

Originally Posted by culldav

Change our constitution back to the way it was, before these parasites changed it to give themselves omnipotent power. Make changes in the constitution that politicians “are” no longer lawless, and allowed to live in a world of their own making; make them work and live under the same system as the general public with NO exceptions.

It might be a radical idea, but it believe it would be a fairly basic change to the constitution.

So how do we change it ? The actual legalities ? What avenues do we have to go down ?

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

So how do we change it ? The actual legalities ? What avenues do we have to go down ?

Good question, Australia really needs a "peacefull revolution", it`s high time we reviewed our Justice, Governmental, and bureaucratic systems.

I’m not a Barrister or QC versed in constitutional law, but I am assuming that if politicians changed the constitution to give themselves omnipotent power, then there has to be a way to undo it under the same methods.

Maybe someone here has a firmer understanding of constitutional law and could answer your, but I don’t have that knowledge.

All I know, is that paying politicians more money is “not” the answer to getting better politicians. I truly believe that when “all” politicians have to live and work under the same conditions as everyone else, that’s when we are going to see a massive change in the overall political system and the way politicians behave and respond to the public, because they will be no longer Gods - but a member of the public themselves.

I really don’t know why people have not realised ages ago that politicians are not Gods, and are nothing special; they are just ordinary people, employed by a majority of people to work for them.

Unfortunately, cunning politicians gave themselves omnipotent power, so once they became elected politicians, they could work under a different law and rule system outside the rules and laws Governing everybody else. Politicians gave themselves the same omnipotent power over the people as awarded to Kings and Emperors of yesteryear, but really under the constitution, they are “just” public employees.

Originally Posted by culldav

I’m not a Barrister or QC versed in constitutional law, but I am assuming that if politicians changed the constitution to give themselves omnipotent power, then there has to be a way to undo it under the same methods.

Maybe someone here has a firmer understanding of constitutional law and could answer your, but I don’t have that knowledge.

All I know, is that paying politicians more money is “not” the answer to getting better politicians. I truly believe that when “all” politicians have to live and work under the same conditions as everyone else, that’s when we are going to see a massive change in the overall political system and the way politicians behave and respond to the public, because they will be no longer Gods - but a member of the public themselves.

I really don’t know why people have not realised ages ago that politicians are not Gods, and are nothing special; they are just ordinary people, employed by a majority of people to work for them.

Unfortunately, cunning politicians gave themselves omnipotent power, so once they became elected politicians, they could work under a different law and rule system outside the rules and laws Governing everybody else. Politicians gave themselves the same omnipotent power over the people as awarded to Kings and Emperors of yesteryear, but really under the constitution, they are “just” public employees.

There are two ways to change the constitution.

1. Additions or deletions need to be legislated. You guessed it, by our politicians. The very ones who have changed it for their benefit. Good luck here !!

2. For the majority of the populace to take up arms and throw the establishment out. Re script the constitution and begin life as a republic. Also highly unlikely, as Aussies would just say "she'll be right mat", and the fact that Howard stole all our guns !

There could possibly be another way, and that is by changing to a republic. Our whole system would need to be re writen to incorporate a new political establishment. Perhaps the too hard basket for us average Aussies.

If we were in the middle east you could be sure that the second option would be high on the cards.

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

There are two ways to change the constitution.

1. Additions or deletions need to be legislated. You guessed it, by our politicians. The very ones who have changed it for their benefit. Good luck here !!

Actually very wrong.

Royal Assent was given by Queen Victoria on 9 July 1900, upon which date the Constitution became law. It came into force on 1 January 1901. Even though the Constitution was originally given legal force by an Act of the United Kingdom parliament, the Australia Act 1986 removed the power of the United Kingdom parliament to change the Constitution as in force in Australia, and the Constitution can now only be changed in accordance with the prescribed referendum procedures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia
which means only the people can change the constitution with a referendum.

Not only that

For an amendment to succeed a ‘double-majority’ is required. This means that a majority of voters nation-wide need to vote ‘yes’ and a majority of voters in a majority of the six states must also vote ‘yes’ (territory votes are counted in the national total but not in any state figure).

No preferential system here.

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

2. For the majority of the populace to take up arms and throw the establishment out. Re script the constitution and begin life as a republic. Also highly unlikely, as Aussies would just say "she'll be right mat", and the fact that Howard stole all our guns !

First of all, most Australian's like the intention of the constitution and would not consider scrapping the entire thing as a good thing. Secondly, what part of the constitution have contravened with the gun buy back scheme? Remember this is not the US constitution and that previous High court challanges, on that very same issue, was unceremoniously thrown from the high court, where constitutional law is upheld in Australia.

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

There could possibly be another way, and that is by changing to a republic. Our whole system would need to be re writen to incorporate a new political establishment. Perhaps the too hard basket for us average Aussies.

changing to a republic requires a referendum to change the constitution, not legislation by the politicians.

On a further note, out of 44 times a referendum has been called for

Of the eight successful national referenda, the 1967 referendum is often referred to as the ‘most’ successful having been passed with 90.8 per cent agreement, the highest ‘yes’ vote to date

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/indigen...al_change.aspx
Thus it must be understood that the government can not. in any way, change the constitution, without the peoples consent.

Originally Posted by slipperyfish

If we were in the middle east you could be sure that the second option would be high on the cards.

So, you propose the institution of governance by those who hold the lethal power to hold it and not majority rule?

Lets start taking back the power from politicians, and start making them live and work under the same rules and conditions as everyone else. If it means just changing basic legislation, then we should be bringing these Gods down from their ivory towers once and for all. Maybe a group like "Get-up" could help with this proposal.

Originally Posted by culldav

Lets start taking back the power from politicians, and start making them live and work under the same rules and conditions as everyone else. If it means just changing basic legislation, then we should be bringing these Gods down from their ivory towers once and for all. Maybe a group like "Get-up" could help with this proposal.

I do concur with your sentiment, but now the question is how? I see little in resolving these issues.

If the people really know what goes on about these politicians, they would be appalled.

One thing I am guessing you did not know is that their pay increase did not only effect their base payment. For example, I would guess you did not connect, when Rudd was elected the opposition made great noise about promises that where supposed to be costed, immediately went to committee. Are you aware that these committees pay the politicians over the top of their base salary rate? Ever wonder where $300 million dollars is absorbed in budget promises that does not produce the product of the promise? Ever wonder what happens to the money the government sets aside for projects that seem to disappear before they actually show something? If you Guessed in the politicians and their mates pockets you would be right, and this not being deducted from their base salary rate which they are payed to simply be voted to Parliament.

These pollies cry poor when they are generating HUGE amount of income that is not preformance based to simply line their own pockets. This is one reason those DAGs (you know the klingons) in the political scene like and promote one party over another. They know that if their party is in, they will be rewarded. if their party is not, they get nothing. Politicians spend a majority of time trying to remain in governance to keep these people happy, not the general public.

But I am sure, both parties have made regulation to ensure that the common man does not hear the real truth about this corruption of the political system in Australia.