Thread: Balinese Australia

True... I overstepped there... Islam only spread as far as Afghanistan and modern Pakistan by invasion...

The biggest obstacle to claims of later contact between Hindu Bali and Australia/New Guinea is lack of a common language...

Hindus (or pre-Islamic Indian Vedic settlers) in Indonesia did not have a common language (apart from the Brahmin royal priests who spoke Sanskrit). However, Sanskrit (>Hindi, etc.) words were borrowed in part for Javanese, Balinese and modern Bahasa. In Australia it seems that Old Balinese words were borrowed for tribal spiritual matters.
The story of Ngurunderi -http://ngarrindjeri.jay019.com/culture/ngurunderi.php
Ngurunderi ..his two wives. ... after them but they escaped across Lake Albert on a raft made from reeds and grass-trees.

Murray River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_River
The twin summits of Mount Misery are supposed to be the remnants of his rafts, they are known as Lalangengall or the two watercraft.
--
Bali :lalang "grass.weeds". engal "fast". In Bali the adjective follows the noun.
Murrundi Ruwe Pangari Ringbalin - River Country Spirit Ceremony ...
http://treatyrepublic.net/.../murrun...river-country-...
The Aboriginal peoples of the Darling and Murray Rivers are gathering for Murrundi Ruwe Pangari Ringbalin (Ngarrindjeri for River Country Spirit Ceremony).
----------
In Australia, the people from Ngareenbeil who sailed to Bundjalung on the east coast, taught laws to Aboriginal people. A spiritual elder is "ngaraampa"
Bali :Ngurah Mpu title of semi-divine leader.
Ngurunderi. Bali: nagara country. Diri here.
was a mighty warrior who speared Pundu the great fish-man, like Vishnu the Hindu fish-man who saved the world in the flood. The Ringbalin is a walk in the steps of the great warrior.
Murrundi Ruwe Pangari Ringbalin.
The Murrundi river begins at Murra Murra. Bali : mara new, fresh
Ruwe . Bali: madruwe own, possess.
Pangari. Bali: panggih meet. nyelepang save. Ari
brother.
Boomi is a place with a spring of water from the "earth". Bali:bumi.
The fish made a straight section of river named Peindjalang. Sanskrit : pende.road Bali:jalang roadway.
The sky god on the earth is Baiame (Sanskrit : Bahyam "outside. foreign?).
It appears that Bali Hindus did not conquer anyone in Oz and did not impose a language. As in the normal transition of cultural words, the incoming terms are borrowed into the existing way of speaking. Even though Muslims defeated the final part of Majapahit Indonesia in 1500s, they did not impose Arabic, Iranian or any language, but Indonesians borrowed some words where needed.

Missed out "ringbalin", walking in steps of Ngurunderi the warrior along the Darling river.
Sanskrit: ring walk slowly. Bali: ring with, behind, for.
Skt. bali mighty. power. Bali :balin mighty warrior.

Originally Posted by Didjabringabeer

Hindus (or pre-Islamic Indian Vedic settlers) in Indonesia did not have a common language (apart from the Brahmin royal priests who spoke Sanskrit). However, Sanskrit (>Hindi, etc.) words were borrowed in part for Javanese, Balinese and modern Bahasa. In Australia it seems that Old Balinese words were borrowed for tribal spiritual matters.
The story of Ngurunderi -http://ngarrindjeri.jay019.com/culture/ngurunderi.php
Ngurunderi ..his two wives. ... after them but they escaped across Lake Albert on a raft made from reeds and grass-trees.

Murray River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_River
The twin summits of Mount Misery are supposed to be the remnants of his rafts, they are known as Lalangengall or the two watercraft.
--
Bali :lalang "grass.weeds". engal "fast". In Bali the adjective follows the noun.
Murrundi Ruwe Pangari Ringbalin - River Country Spirit Ceremony ...
http://treatyrepublic.net/.../murrun...river-country-...
The Aboriginal peoples of the Darling and Murray Rivers are gathering for Murrundi Ruwe Pangari Ringbalin (Ngarrindjeri for River Country Spirit Ceremony).
----------
In Australia, the people from Ngareenbeil who sailed to Bundjalung on the east coast, taught laws to Aboriginal people. A spiritual elder is "ngaraampa"
Bali :Ngurah Mpu title of semi-divine leader.
Ngurunderi. Bali: nagara country. Diri here.
was a mighty warrior who speared Pundu the great fish-man, like Vishnu the Hindu fish-man who saved the world in the flood. The Ringbalin is a walk in the steps of the great warrior.
Murrundi Ruwe Pangari Ringbalin.
The Murrundi river begins at Murra Murra. Bali : mara new, fresh
Ruwe . Bali: madruwe own, possess.
Pangari. Bali: panggih meet. nyelepang save. Ari
brother.
Boomi is a place with a spring of water from the "earth". Bali:bumi.
The fish made a straight section of river named Peindjalang. Sanskrit : pende.road Bali:jalang roadway.
The sky god on the earth is Baiame (Sanskrit : Bahyam "outside. foreign?).
It appears that Bali Hindus did not conquer anyone in Oz and did not impose a language. As in the normal transition of cultural words, the incoming terms are borrowed into the existing way of speaking. Even though Muslims defeated the final part of Majapahit Indonesia in 1500s, they did not impose Arabic, Iranian or any language, but Indonesians borrowed some words where needed.

Lol... What do you mean "borrowed"..? The first occupation of Australia was before the Mt Toba eruption, 75K ago, which reduced the population of India to around 60 individuals...
Aboriginal languages, and there are six language groups, are related to Melanessian languages more than any other...
Similar words which survived into Sanskrit in India would more likely then come from the pre-Sanskrit culture of the region and language transfer would be the other way round...

Why would you think that aboriginal lore and practices had to be introduced from India..?

How about the common words come from a common original culture, the pre Toba culture of Asia..?

Originally Posted by tok3z

>Lol... What do you mean "borrowed"..?
."There's no doubt about Macassan settlements around Broome, or trade with the Piditjara and Yolngu ppl..."
There about 600 Indonesian words borrowed into north Australian languages. "Borrowed" is the normal Linguistics term for that.

>Aboriginal languages, and there are six language groups, are related to Melanessian languages more than any other...
In my #12, which you quote, it says the "existing way of speaking". It's called High-Low, where a new "high" culture brings words which are fitted into the old "low" grammar and syntax, just as Sanskrit was fitted into old Indonesian grammar.
>Similar words which survived into Sanskrit in India would more likely then come from the pre-Sanskrit culture of the region and language transfer would be the other way round...
Sanskrit is one of the Indo-European language branches, similar to Persian and also to Celtic.
The origin was around the Caucasus south Russia general region.
Languages continually change, so 19th century English is different, and Shakespeare is very different. Old Balinese is different from today's Bali language, and languages can be dated by their rate of change. The almost identical form of these Aboriginal words with Balinese and Old Balinese indicates contact from a few centuries ago.
>Why would you think that aboriginal lore and practices had to be introduced from India..?

They didn't have to be introduced at all from anyone. Bali didn't have to borrow any language or religion from India. But they chose to and it seems Aboriginal elders also chose to borrow from Balinese teachers. Angkor Wat was only built because the population chose to move upriver and build a Vedic Indian city. That was the influential system which apparently came here.

Lol... You know that Angkor Wat and even the Bali kingdoms were tens of thousands of years after the development of most aboriginal language and religion..?
The Mt Toba eruption almost completely destroyed the population of the region and any culture that had existed in Indonesia and Bali before that...

You're right. Mt Toba destroyed Indonesia and India which had 60 people (not 61) left alive. Only Aboriginals escaped death and they kept their religions. No Aboriginals speak English or followed Islam or Hindu tradition in the Northern territory. No Aboriginals go to church, they can't understand the words.

Oh ffs what's that supposed to mean..? Aboriginal culture was already established long before anything even resembling Balinese or Indian Hindu existed... Why do you think ideas would have to come from India or from Bali..?
Hidden in that is colonial prejudice that thinks anything aboriginal culture has was introduced from outside... We know the Macassan fisherman introduced the dingo around 5K ago, and we also know that aboriginal languages are related to indigenous languages of Timor, Borneo and New Guinea/ Papua...
We also know that these melanesian cultures in Indonesia came before anything resembling Bali Hindu or Indian Hindu...
The obvious conclusion is that Hinduism took from earlier languages and religion, not the other way round...

Your comments indicate that you may be Aboriginal and are responding from anger at European racism.
You are saying that India borrowed its Sanskrit words and Hindu faith from the islands and Oz. Is that also a form of racism?