Thread: Asylum Seekers-should we or shouldn't we?

In light of the events that have taken place recently, one cannot but feel a little frustrated or maybe perplexed about a situation that is quite serious on humanitarian grounds.

I think it is important for all Australians to seriously discuss issue without partiality or preconceptions. I seriously have a problem with rhetoric and mindless accusations that aim to simply infuse fear and hate. I'll oppose this type of tactic all the time. Questions must be raised but as is the case with politics there are always twists and turns with every argument.

The greens want to increase our intake of refuges to 25, 0000 and provide on shore processing. Both the liberals and government want off shore processing but the liberals want to increas our refuge numbers by another 6,000.

Our parliamentarians can't agree on technicalities, so what is our best option?

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

In light of the events that have taken place recently, one cannot but feel a little frustrated or maybe perplexed about a situation that is quite serious on humanitarian grounds.

I think it is important for all Australians to seriously discuss issue without partiality or preconceptions. I seriously have a problem with rhetoric and mindless accusations that aim to simply infuse fear and hate. I'll oppose this type of tactic all the time. Questions must be raised but as is the case with politics there are always twists and turns with every argument.

The greens want to increase our intake of refuges to 25, 0000 and provide on shore processing. Both the liberals and government want off shore processing but the liberals want to increas our refuge numbers by another 6,000.

Our parliamentarians can't agree on technicalities, so what is our best option?

First, let me say I have no problem with refuges. As for raising the numbers, I do not agree.

However, in my opinion, more resources should be spent on processing where these boats come from. I think the major goal of any policy on the boat people issue should include greater resources and faster processing off shore, where these people apply for refuge status.

There are too many deaths from people using Illegal people smuggling (not that their are legal ones) to justify sitting on our hands and ignoring those that do the right thing and apply to our embassies. I Know of one afgahn family who has been waiting now about 6 years in indonesia for an answer to their request. Imagine that, what a great advert for the people smugglers. Pay them, get to Australia be processed quicker and get out to a better future, does anybody wonder why they continue to do this?

It is one thing to send them over seas to sit and wait, it is another to actually process them overseas before they get on the boats. Of course there are those that are just routing the system but I am sure there are those that are genuine. That is not the question.

However, most of this is simply, MY OPINION.

Originally Posted by garry17

First, let me say I have no problem with refuges. As for raising the numbers, I do not agree.

Britain apparently get around 300,000 asylum seekers per year. Our numbers are relatively small in comparison. Not sure of those that gain refuge status though.

Originally Posted by garry17

However, in my opinion, more resources should be spent on processing where these boats come from. I think the major goal of any policy on the boat people issue should include greater resources and faster processing off shore, where these people apply for refuge status.

Why is this not an option?

Originally Posted by garry17

There are too many deaths from people using Illegal people smuggling (not that their are legal ones) to justify sitting on our hands and ignoring those that do the right thing and apply to our embassies. I Know of one afgahn family who has been waiting now about 6 years in indonesia for an answer to their request. Imagine that, what a great advert for the people smugglers. Pay them, get to Australia be processed quicker and get out to a better future, does anybody wonder why they continue to do this?

I suppose the greens answer to this is to increase numbers, but then it becomes a humanitarian issue at whatever cost to Australia. Is it a significant cost when you think about, more people creating more demand?

Originally Posted by garry17

It is one thing to send them over seas to sit and wait, it is another to actually process them overseas before they get on the boats. Of course there are those that are just routing the system but I am sure there are those that are genuine. That is not the question.

However, most of this is simply, MY OPINION.

You would hope that the screening process eliminates those people, but apparently there havent been too many refuges that have questionable characters. Only a handful are rejected out of thousands, so the Edmund rice centre says anyway.

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

Britain apparently get around 300,000 asylum seekers per year. Our numbers are relatively small in comparison. Not sure of those that gain refuge status though.

I beleive the amount in Australia is close to 300,000 but I am not entirely sure about that. I do know that Australia (according to the government) is punching well above most of the world in this area, which I do not have a problem with. My problem is that increasing the numbers will in no way, aid in stopping the boats. If anything it will provide more incentive for these criminals to take advantage of people.

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

Why is this not an option?

It is an option, But governments of the day would rather have this around for political advantage. resources put into action in this fashion would not be seen or politically advantageous for the government of the day. However, processing is in place at all Australian consullar institutes just poorly funded and priorities are for those that arrive on Australian soil by whatever means. Of course there has to be a ceiling on all spending as money is not abundant, but spending it where the boats come from is a better deterant than in Australia.

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

I suppose the greens answer to this is to increase numbers, but then it becomes a humanitarian issue at whatever cost to Australia. Is it a significant cost when you think about, more people creating more demand?

Yes, However, Again I have no problem with people coming to Australia, it is just how they do it. In saying this, people or politicians will eventually have to look at the ever increasing demand on the Australian economy and human resources (as I am sure they are) to insure that numbers never exceed resource capability (not that I am aware it will be an issue soon)

Originally Posted by truthvigilante

You would hope that the screening process eliminates those people, but apparently there havent been too many refuges that have questionable characters. Only a handful are rejected out of thousands, so the Edmund rice centre says anyway.

I guess your right.

The Australian Government and the Australian people should be very concerned as to WHY 85% of these “boatie arrivals” are still of welfare benefits up to 5 years and counting.

I think those figure alone speak volumes as to why these parasites are risking life and limb to access Australia through the backdoor that’s enabling them to suckle on the welfare teat without having to contribute a cent to Australia in return.

We need to stop these parasites sucking the money out of the Australian tax payers.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/som...-1226079532616

The above is where Australian tax payer money is BLEEDING OUT too.

These parasites are coming to this country and bleeding it dry through another SCAM called “asylum seeker”.

Originally Posted by culldav

The Australian Government and the Australian people should be very concerned as to WHY 85% of these “boatie arrivals” are still of welfare benefits up to 5 years and counting.

Where have you got this figure from?

Originally Posted by culldav

I think those figure alone speak volumes as to why these parasites are risking life and limb to access Australia through the backdoor that’s enabling them to suckle on the welfare teat without having to contribute a cent to Australia in return.

The article says 1 in 5 are on the dole! The very first sentence says "SOME" Refugees are sending money back home. This is the very thing I despise is this fear mongering, no good infusing hate comments!

Originally Posted by culldav

We need to stop these parasites sucking the money out of the Australian tax payers.
Whatever Culldav! Negativity is your second name.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/som...-1226079532616

The above is where Australian tax payer money is BLEEDING OUT too.

These parasites are coming to this country and bleeding it dry through another SCAM called “asylum seeker”.

I don't think you have bothered to read this article thoroughly Culldav. Go back and read but also, analyse it. I am sure you'll have a different opinion!

I wish this was a simple case of black and white....but it's not. It is very grey. I feel for those that have lost their lives in the pursuit of a better life for them and their loved ones. Before I relay a story that was told to me yesterday I will first comment on the amount of asylum seekers we should or shouldn't take. It has been posted that other countries take this and that and their numbers out do ours. Thats well and good, however we are a country of only 23 million, in comparison to the other said countries hundreds of millions. Of our 23 million people, we have children, old age pensioners, disabled pensioners, and other welfare recipients ( we will include politicians at this point in welfare as they don't seem to be contributing much at this moment ) who are unable to contribute to revenue of this nation in a meaningful enough way as to help this situation.

This relatively small amount of contributing tax payers are then left with the burden of supporting these new arrivals who at first are not able to find meaningful work because of barriers such as education and language. These take time to aquire. So to increase our intake would be to our own folly as we do not have the economic means in which to carry this burden. These other countries have a larger pool of income and means in which to dispearse the burden. So even though our great country has all the space to fit these people, all the empathy to console, we just do not have the means in which to carry their burden. It is unfortunately the cold hard truth. The world is not perfect.

At risk of making this such a long winded post, I came across a Sudanese family that have moved into our area. I helped them out by allowing them to pay off some furniture and take it home, just to get started. Nice people, very humble and appreciative. The Father was telling me that they spent ten years in Kenya in a camp waiting for a western nation to take them in. They didn't care which one, such was their dispair. They were from a minority group that was being run out of an area of Sudan. His brother and his family were murdered, so he didn't take any chances and they hoofed it to Kenya, all seven of them. Only six made it, as his elderly mother died along the way. I will try to abreviate to shorten the story. His wife fell pregnant when they were in the camp and unfortunately the child died at birth, and his wife became very sick. She made it. The first offer for asylum came but only four of them were offered places....WTF. This was not an offer from us. They turned it down for obvious reasons...........six years later, hello new Aussies.

This man did not go into too much detail but he did show me some fairly brag worthy scars on his chest and back where he was beaten and slashed with a machete. He was smart enough to learn english while in camp and is about to start his new life here in town. He said most people were a little stand offish at the beginning but now he talks to people up the street all the time. He is about to start work with an earth moving business. He loves our country !

This is but one story of a real refugee, who needed our help and eventually got it. I think the issue here is the time it is taking to process these claims. We fix this and we may well be on the way to limiting illegal access and therefore dangerous travel.

PS. He did tell me, if he had the money he would of gladly handed it over to some crook to get them to OZ. Desperation is desperation no matter the economic circumstance of the individual.

Just one quick comment on this complex issue. One blaringly obvious fact that is never attended in the discussion of this issue, is that there are billions of people existing in regions within reach of us, where human despair and brutality are all too common. We simply can`t take enough of these poor souls to make the smallest impact on the issue. Perhaps we would do better to completely stop the boats and concentrate our resources in a more effective way? There are times when confronting reality can be a painfull exercise.

There is one massive difference the Sudanese family you describe and these illegal “boaties” that arrive here, and that is: the Sudanese family didn’t travel through seven other countries before hoping on a boat to get through Australia’s backdoor. They went to the nearest safe country that could offer them help and assistance, and these financial opportunistic “boaties” don’t do this. 99% of these “boatie” arrivals are coming from the Middle East, and the closest safe country to them that could offer them UN supported assistance is Russia, but none of make the journey across land locked countries into Russia for help - nor do they try to make the journey to other European land locked countries that could also offer them UN support and protection.

What these “boaties” do is travel through seven other countries making their way to Indonesia, and then decided to hire people smugglers and pay them $10,000 per ticket to hop on a leaky rickety boat to travel to Australia through the backdoor. WHY?

If you are genuinely trying to escape persecution and in genuine fear for your life you go to the nearest country for help, exactly what the Sudanese family did - that you described.

These “boaties” are not coming to Australia though desperation or wanting to make a better life for their families by wanting to be part of Australia, they are coming simply to attach themselves to Australia’s easy welfare and public housing system whereby they don’t have to contribute a thing - and 85% are doing exactly that.

The Governments own report highlighted that up to 85% of these “boaties” were still suckling the tax payer welfare teat up to 5 years and counting. Yes, there are some initial problems with language and social barriers in these “boaties” obtaining work, but 85% of them not finding work up to 5 years is a bloody joke and insult, and shows the true intent why that specific group (boaties) don't get work, and other genuine refugees that come to Australia do get work.

When your risking a lifetime living off another countries easy welfare system and a $10,000 ticket; you are going to concoct the best lies you can possibly think off to get yourself granted asylum. Fear for your life, going to be raped and bashed if you are forced to return, is exactly the woe is me bullshyte these “boaties” tell get Australians to feel sorry for them, but its all a con and a scam.

I have no compassion or empathy for criminals regardless of circumstances - you do the crime and you do the time and the punishment.

Australia and Australians SHOULD be saying NO to $10,000 ticket holders, and YES to genuine refugees in camps.

If I was genuinely in fear for my life or the life of my family, I would be going to nearest countries for help and assistance - New Zealand and New Guinea. I would only consider country hoping to Sweden if I thought the population was stupid & easily coned and scammed, and once accepted as asylum seekers, we could live off their welfare system indefinitely.

Dumb-arse Aussie do-gooders and bleeding hearts just don’t understand the rules of the scam game yet!!


LOL LOL