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Thread: How to Defeat a Liberal in a Debate

  1. Default How to Defeat a Liberal in a Debate

    There are two ways that you can try to defeat a liberal in a debate. The ineffective method (deontological / moral) and the effective method (consequentialist / economic).

    1. Make an argument based on morality. For example...you can argue that taxes are theft. The bible says that theft is wrong therefore taxes are wrong. Or...if you don't believe in the bible...then you can say that there is a "natural law" that proves that taxes are wrong. In both cases you might as well take out a piece of paper and write on it..."taxes are wrong" and then hand it to your opponent.

    Obviously this argument will only work on people that share your same moral views. And even more obviously...liberals do not share your same moral views. They believe that it is morally wrong not to contribute to the common good.

    Therefore, your moral argument is to protect the rights of the bee and their moral argument is to protect the rights of the hive. However, if you make the argument that protecting the rights of the bee automatically protects the rights of the hive...then you are no longer making a moral argument. Instead, you're now making a consequentialist argument. You're arguing that the consequences of protecting the bee are good for the hive. But if you're going to end up making a consequentialist argument...then why bother starting with a moral argument?

    2. Make an argument based on consequences (economics). For example...you can argue that only individuals can determine the "best" use of their limited resources. Our country as a whole would greatly benefit if individuals had the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money.

    Here are a few examples of this argument in action...

    1. Noam Chomsky on Socialism
    2. Perspectives Matter - Backstory

    As you can see...it's impossible for liberals to defeat this argument. If they attempt to defeat this argument...then their attempt (which represents the "best" use of their limited time) would automatically prove your point that people should have the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money.

    Here's the bottom line. If you can't explain the economic benefits of freedom...then you can't complain when people fail to see the advantages of freedom. If they can't see the advantages of freedom then it's because you're failing to show it to them.

    Admittedly, it's not easy to show people the "unseen"...which was exactly the objective of my post...Perspectives Matter - Economics in One Lesson. Two heads are better than one though...so join the Magna Carta Movement and together we can help people see the "unseen".

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    Make an argument based on consequences (economics)
    Economists are more likely to be liberal than conservative. Many of the schools of thought are also more suited to liberal comment (including the dominant neoclassical school).
    And the ship we sail, and the flag she flies; It is the Herald of Free Enterprise

  3. Default

    That term has been so bastardized I don't even know how to respond.

    Even very freedom loving, personal freedom maximizing economist fall left of center as far as American politics are concerned, but that's saying very little.
    X
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    For example...you can argue that taxes are theft.
    Let's start with this.

    The Book of Matthew:

    20 Keeping a close watch on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be sincere. They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said, so that they might hand him over to the power and authority of the governor. 21 So the spies questioned him: “Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. 22 Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?

    23 He saw through their duplicity and said to them, 24 “Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription are on it?”

    “Caesar’s,” they replied.

    25 He said to them, “Then give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
    From the mouth of God, amiright?

    Any questions?
    Last edited by toddwv; Mar 26 2012 at 02:16 PM.

    "Ever notice how some Americans who boast that they never trust their govt tend to be the ones who trust it completely whenever an unarmed black person is shot & killed. If not, start noticing it."
    ~John Fugelsang


  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    2. Make an argument based on consequences (economics). For example...you can argue that only individuals can determine the "best" use of their limited resources. Our country as a whole would greatly benefit if individuals had the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money.

    Here are a few examples of this argument in action...

    1. Noam Chomsky on Socialism
    2. Perspectives Matter - Backstory

    As you can see...it's impossible for liberals to defeat this argument. If they attempt to defeat this argument...then their attempt (which represents the "best" use of their limited time) would automatically prove your point that people should have the freedom to choose how they use their limited time/money.

    Here's the bottom line. If you can't explain the economic benefits of freedom...then you can't complain when people fail to see the advantages of freedom. If they can't see the advantages of freedom then it's because you're failing to show it to them.

    Admittedly, it's not easy to show people the "unseen"...which was exactly the objective of my post...Perspectives Matter - Economics in One Lesson. Two heads are better than one though...so join the Magna Carta Movement and together we can help people see the "unseen".
    Except, of course, that the evidence overwhelmingly favors liberal economic policy over conservative economic policy.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone View Post
    Except, of course, that the evidence overwhelmingly favors liberal economic policy over conservative economic policy.
    Does your perspective matter?

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
    That term has been so bastardized I don't even know how to respond.

    Even very freedom loving, personal freedom maximizing economist fall left of center as far as American politics are concerned, but that's saying very little.
    Are you going to join the Magna Carta Movement?

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    Does your perspective matter?
    The data is pretty clear. Liberal economies grow faster, have a more even distribution of benefits, achieve far greater material prosperity, have far less social unrest, and have overall higher measures of quality of life.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone View Post
    The data is pretty clear. Liberal economies grow faster, have a more even distribution of benefits, achieve far greater material prosperity, have far less social unrest, and have overall higher measures of quality of life.
    What is a liberal economy for you? As far as I know, most of the countries people refer as examples of development tend to have better ranking on freedom indexes out there. For example, this one http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking lits the US as 10th, canada as 6th and australia as 3rd.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
    Even very freedom loving, personal freedom maximizing economist fall left of center as far as American politics are concerned, but that's saying very little.
    Technically freedom loving will lead you to socialism! One cannot be freedom loving if one ignores the innate coercion within the labour contract
    And the ship we sail, and the flag she flies; It is the Herald of Free Enterprise

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