Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer

It cannot be fair. It is collectivist statist mentality, and it is theft:

"To take a man's property without his consent is robbery; and to assume his consent where no consent is given, makes the taking none the less robbery. If it did not, the highwayman has the same right to assume a man's consent to part with his purse, that any other man, or body of men, can have. And his assumption would afford as much moral justification for his robbery as does a like assumption, on the part of the government, for taking a man's property without his consent. The government's pretense of protecting him, as an equivalent for the taxation, affords no justification. It is for himself to decide whether he desires such protection as the government offers him. If he does not desire it, or does not bargain for it, the government has no more right, than any other insurance company to impose it upon him, or make him pay for it." - Lysander Spooner, "Trial by Jury"

Originally Posted by oddlycalm

The Tax Reform Act of 1986 was a milestone reform of the tax code under Reagan, and written by Sen. Bob Packwood. The revision was two step system was widely heralded as fair, and passed with strong bi-partison support in both the house and senate.

However, the fly in the ointment was the minimum tax provision. This clause said that regardless of deductions, if you made X amount of money you would pay a minimum amount. This meant that wealthy people that had been accustomed to paying a very small percentage of their income in tax all of a sudden had very large tax bills. It was barely a year before lobbyists began gutting the TRA of 1986, and today we are back to where we were.

Even with the massive tax rollbacks for the wealthy, if a minimum tax were implemented today, most big earners would scream like a stuck pig, just as they did in 1986.

As an object lesson, the taxes rates on the wealthy that the Reagan administration considered fair have now been rolled back by around 50%, and yet we still hear all manner of whining and complaining about tax rates. The average percentage paid by corporations today is just half of what it was under Reagan, and averages 6% of earnings. If you work for wages, and unless you make more than $500,000, you can count on the fact that you are are getting hosed, and paying far in excess of your fair share.

Those of us at the higher income levels are able to write off a $99,000 Porsche Cayenne the same year we buy it (for business, wink, wink) we have available to us more leasing schemes that I have room to list, or we can simply generate and earn most of our income through offshore shell companies, leave the money there, and not have it taxed at all. The shell company in turn owns all of our assets for us, but we have use of the houses and use the cars, planes and beach front condos.

This entire issue is a sham, and those in the current administration know it. The 'conservative' strategy is to tax wage earners heavily so the rest of us don't have to pay squat. It works for me, but how well is it working for you? You are being played...

oc

Originally Posted by nerv14

My philosphy is that wealth should be redistributed to a degree that allows other people to have the oppurtunities to make their own wealth.

Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer

Your philosophy is illogical, since you must use threat of force or force to steal from some to give to others.

If you allow people freedom, they will be able to provide for themselves. If human beings could not provide for themselves without central control, we would be extinct, because we would have never survived prior to the creation of government. We do not need central controllers telling everyone what to do in regard to peaceful, honest, voluntary activities.

Originally Posted by nerv14

When you say that my statement is illogical you make it seem a fact that any wealth taken away by force is inherrently wrong. If wealth is distributed to allow other peopel to become self sufficent and helpful members of a society than I consider the redistribution logical.

Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer

It is illogical. Taxation is theft. Even if the money stolen were used for good purposes, that does not overcome the immorality of the initial theft.

This is the same argument the Neocons use for Iraq. "We are using force there to make their lives better - therefore it is justified." The ends do not justify the means.



Because I am against the initiation of force to achieve political goals.