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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008, 07:52 AM
Fascist Canuck Fascist Canuck is offline
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Originally Posted by blackcyrrus View Post
I don't know why they keep failing to gain independence they should have. Maybe economic reasons, I'm not sure. I'll read up.
Mind your own business.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by camarade View Post
First it's not a referendum for independance but for sovereignty. The reason why they will still have one referendum in 5 years is because in the first referendum, Trudeau ( who was against the sovereignty ) and his team use illegal politic manners like he paid empty bank trucks to leave Quebec to let think that we are losing our money because of the sovereignty. He also promised that if we vote for non ( no ) we will be a distinct nation, of course he didn't do it. In the second referendum, the results was too equal, 49.4% of yes and 50.6%. But Ottawa had accredited 43 900 new citizens of Quebec in the year preceding the referendum, including 11 500 on the month preceding the vote. Usually, approximately 20 000 immigrants are received citizens annually.
What do you think 'sovereignty' is? The referendum is for independence. The Quebecois have stated they will be a completely independent state, something we Canadians will never allow. You would have to pry the CAR-15 from my cold, dead hands before I allow Quebec independence.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DanoDeMano View Post
They didn't overwhelmingly fail though. In the 2nd referendum, the pro-seperatist movement got 49.x% of the vote. It was a razor sharp victory for the federalists.


They haven't gained much, because the pro-Seperatists also happen to b very anti-business, they have scared off a lot of foreign investment. Though they do gain cash from Ottawa in the form of equalization payments and other goodies like that Canoe museum. You could argue I suppose that threatening to secede from Canada, will get you some more favors in order to quell that sentiment.
Quebec receives a far, far larger share of the equalisation payments than the rest of the country does. This is outright bribery. I have advocated an end to any such payments to teach Quebec a lesson they shall soon never forget. Give them zero. Watch how fast they shut the hell up then. Democracies are weak in that they do not know how to handle such (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s. Under fascism, the chances of Quebec ever even breathing the word 'independence' would be none.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Schizowallflower View Post
Quebec is already completely French. They also have slightly different laws or slightly altered laws from the rest of the country. I think they pretty much already have Independence/Sovereignty but it's just not "official" yet.

I just think it keeps getting knocked down because the rest of the country doesn't want to be "split into two." But that's just what I think. I also think there would be a lot of work maintaining a country almost in the middle of another.

But I do hope that it one day passes and becomes official. I love Montréal and Québec City.
Quebec may be very much French, but the federals have warned them that anyone who wishes to speak in English, or to receive any type of documentation from the Quebec government in English, they must do so. The result of their refusal is heavy fines. Canada is supposedly officially bilingual, and this of course includes Quebec. It cannot be an unilingual province, for it is against our laws. If ever the Quebecois refuse any English-speaking individual the right to deal with them in English, the federal government will be there to back that English-speaking individual. I know because I have seen it happen. I have seen the Quebecois receive ominous warnings from the feds.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by louisMcleod View Post
I'm an 11th generation Quebecker (my ancestors first got here in 1640), I'm of mixed Scottish and French ancestry. I support Quebec independence, so do all my family, friends and most white collar workers, artists and intellectuals here. I voted Yes in the 95 referendum and would vote the same today. Just as my father, and his father before that, I will want my children to remember the history of their people, how they were conquered, brided with gifts, made to collaborate like whores, then kept as 2nd class citizens, told they were inferior, threatened with assimilation, told they would never make it on their own, that their democratic cause was illegal, threatened with partition, that their votes were drowned with fast-tracked immigration, corrupted sponshoship scandals, etc, etc, Each generation having its story of disdain. For anyone who knows a little history, it should understood that although it has its differences, the Quebec independence movement is a true one, it follows the same collective will that drove the Irish, Americans or Indus to seek their own independence. I also support Scottish independence and would support the idea of Quebec giving honorary citizenship to every Tibetan in solidarity of their cause, which seems to be even more hopeless than ours is according to federalists here.
Yes, you were conquered, in a war that you started. Let us never forget that little tidbit of information.

As for your claim that the British threatened you with assimilation, it never happened. The Quebecois were guaranteed their right to retain their culture, and this was immediately after your wimpy ancestors were waving the white flag left and right.

Remember the Plains of Abraham! *ROTFLMAO @ the stupid French getting their asses whupped in Quebec.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by louisMcleod View Post
In response to Sadistic-Savior's post... "Quebec is hardly oppressed". True its people are not openly oppressed like in the past, but they were, for a long time, in all sorts of way, not all physical. People remember. As an American you should know, the little guy fighting against the odds for his freedom merits respect. What if 30 years before the American revolution, the British suddenly became real nice guys? Would Washington, Jefferson and the others have forgotten about independence? Would they have said, we have all we need for a comfortable life, we're represented, let bygons be bygons, lets stay British forever? There's more behind the drive for freedom than wanting to stop being oppressed and being represented. And no, Quebec is not as liberal as you might think, it's actually less and less liberal than Canada. People here are rising up against Muslim values, they fight in Afghanistan, have strong family values, support stronger control in immigration, are against affirmative action, etc. Quebeckers in general have respect for Americans, most of those who don't have been taught to think that way by Canadians. The Canadian elite has been telling us to look down on the US since they first got here. Remember who the Canadians are. They're the descendants of loyalists that fled the US because they did not support the Revolution. These guys were basically traitors and collaborators.
I should shut up and let me, my children and my grandchildren spent the rest of eternity with these guys? Their heart were never at the right place. I voted yes to independence and will do it again. God bless George Washington, and Michael Collins in Ireland, they had the heart at the right place.
The Quebecois have never been oppressed. You need to keep your lies to yourself. It just never happened. How could you ever be 'oppressed' if you have been allowed for a long time to vote for your own brand of government? How many countries do you think would allow a bloody 'separatist' government to exist in their midst? As a fascist, I would ban Bloc Quebecois outright, as the traitors they are! Democracy proves its very weakness by allow Quebec to even open its bloody mouths. I would have Quebec silenced so fast your froggy heads would spin.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:59 AM
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Under my fascist rule, Quebec would be torn asunder, and destroyed altogether. The remnants of the province would be split between Ontario and our Atlantic provinces. I would end French as one of our official languages, and really show the 'Quebecois' what oppression really means. They are traitors to my country, and should be treated as such.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fascist Canuck View Post
Under my fascist rule, Quebec would be torn asunder, and destroyed altogether. The remnants of the province would be split between Ontario and our Atlantic provinces. I would end French as one of our official languages, and really show the 'Quebecois' what oppression really means. They are traitors to my country, and should be treated as such.
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George-Étienne Cartier are muc h better person the n you.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:38 AM
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George-Étienne Cartier are muc h better person the n you.
.
I would ask that your utter the name 'General Sir James Wolfe', and see fit to never forget it. He made you and yours his (*)(*)(*)(*)(*). Live with it.
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:54 PM
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First of all welcome to this board BlackWidow! I'm quite new as well but I like this board. I agree with pretty much everything you say in your first post except maybe for this part:

Your whole mentality is, 'We're the real Canadians and the other Candians are all visitors and should leave'...It's people like you trying to draw the line between a culture ya'll should be sharing as Canadians...Rather then focusing on who hasn't got 'French blood' in them... OMG I could not have said that better, that IS in deed how they think and portray themselves.

I don't think this is accurate, in fact it's quite the opposite. Most Quebec nationalists don't fell canadian at all while the federalist ones for the most part feel Quebecois before Canadian. I live in Quebec and never heard anyone tell me Quebecois are the real Canadians.

Except for this part I agree with the imposed french upon english-canadians. About the french courses you guys have to do in order to graduate, I've heard from 3 friends who told me about it. It's basically word-drilling like this word means this one and so on. You never get to be perfectly bilingual, hardly a very basic knowledge of french, not good enough for good conversations. Pretty much like the english courses we have in Quebec schools. I asked a friend in Winnipeg, another one in Regina and another one in Newfoundland about it and they all told me the same thing. What's the use to force students to take language courses that won't make them functional in this second language? The answer is purely political. It's meant to show the world and Quebecois that Canada truly cares about its 2 founding peoples and that Quebec has no point wanting to secede.

Can you imagine how many laws and policies are made by Ottawa specifically to prevent Quebec independence? The clarity act, the Quebec nation motion and let's not forget the sponsorship scandal. All this time and money spent towards ONE province out of 10. You Canadians have to pay big money and have another language forced on you only for the sake of preventing Quebec independence! This is truly unfair to you because you represent 75% of this country and should be treated according to your population. You basically pay for a government (regardless of the party in power) that governs primarily to prevent ONE province from seceding.

On the other end, french-Quebecois are a majority within Quebec but a minority within Canada. Canada is theorically based on the 2 founding nations concept but this doesn’t apply in practice. Quebec is one province out of 10 when according to the founding nations theory it should be 1 out of 2. Most crucial decisions can be made amongst english provinces without needing Quebec’s approval. At least that’s what the Supreme Court stipulated in 1982. The constitution is the best example of this. Trudeau’s constitution act of 1982 didn’t need Quebec’s approval and to this day Quebec still hasn’t signed it. And don’t tell me it’s the seperatists’ fault because even strong federalist Premiers of Quebec like Bourassa and Charest refuse to sign it. The reason for this refusal is simple: we are not in the constitution. According to this document, the federal governement and the Supreme Court have the last word in everything and are above provincial laws, even cultural laws. Cultural laws have no real meaning in english-Canada because english is the international language and it’ll be a long time before it’s theathened. But in Quebec it’s essential for the survival of our language. We are a relatively small people in North America and we must make laws in order to protect our language if we don’t want to be assimilated. The problem with Canada is that the Supreme Court, as stipulated in the 82 constitution, can invalidate our language laws at will and it uses this power a lot. Bill 101, that brought linguistic peace in Quebec in the late 70’s and is recognized by almost everyone in Quebec (including federalists) as an essential law, has been consistently attacked by the Court and has suffered lots of weakening amendments over the years.

Overall, my point is that I’m in favor of Quebec Independence because I think we are each other’s problem. Canada would be more functional without Quebec because it would stop imposing bilingualism to its people who don’t care about the french language and most of all it would stop governing according to this question: If I do this, will this make Quebec want to seperate? Canada would be more united and it’d be easier that way to satisfy everyone. Quebec would also be more functional because it would have all the tools in its hands to promote its language and culture without having someone else’s constitution in the way. Canada and Quebec have always been strong democracies and there’s no doubt in my mind that it will continue after they split. The language minorities will be protected in both territories and I’m 100% sure that after the initial shock of seperation, both countries will develop strong commercial ties and will be better partners than they are now. After all, it would be in both countries’s interests to maintain good relations.
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