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Old 05-31-2009, 05:32 AM
Jazz Jazz is offline
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Originally Posted by wyly View Post
how's that going to help when they're hitch hiking on deserted highways, selling themselves in the seedy areas of town...really there is only so much you can do...
Counselling and making them aware of such dangers would help, wouldn't it? I really don't know what life for the Natives is like. I do feel, though, they have been pushed aside and live in the shadows of White society.
Perhaps I need an education first on Natives in Canada...they seem so remote from my life.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:17 PM
wyly wyly is offline
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Counselling and making them aware of such dangers would help, wouldn't it? I really don't know what life for the Natives is like. I do feel, though, they have been pushed aside and live in the shadows of White society.
Perhaps I need an education first on Natives in Canada...they seem so remote from my life.
I guess it could have some effect....but I'm not that sympathetic to their plight...it sucks to be poor but that's the same situation literally millions of immigrants were in when they first arrived in Canada with no cash and not speaking the language...my father first arrived looking for work two months before the remainder of our family came over he was done to his last $2 when he finally found a job pushing cement in his best/only suit...the first winter here were very hard , food packages from the salvation army saw us through but after that we were self sufficient...no one forces natives to quit school, not to seek and keep a job, take up alcohol or drug use the opportunities are there for them just as they are for any immgrant that comes to Canada and to advance themselves...
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:56 PM
Doug_yvr Doug_yvr is offline
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.no one forces natives to quit school, not to seek and keep a job, take up alcohol or drug use the opportunities are there for them just as they are for any immgrant that comes to Canada and to advance themselves...
Yikes wyly! Spend some time on reserves before you say that. There are very good reasons that the suicide rate among young people on them is so high - they are in most cases completely hopeless places with few options for escape. New immigrants to Canada in the past and especially today didn't encounter anything even remotely as dismal and hopeless as life on a reserve.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:00 PM
wyly wyly is offline
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Yikes wyly! Spend some time on reserves before you say that. There are very good reasons that the suicide rate among young people on them is so high - they are in most cases completely hopeless places with few options for escape. .
then leave the reserve there is nothing stopping them, there are those who have done just that and done well...if you live an area where there is no work or few resources like many reserves then you leave, waiting around for your life to magically improve on it's own just isn't going to happen...the key is education, staying away from alcohol/drug abuse and a willingness to work hard...I've been around natives my entire life, I've played with them, partied with them, grown up with them, worked with them, been to their weddings and funerals, they're even part of my extended family but have no room for their self pity...quit school and your prospects are bleak, take up drugs even bleaker, no interest in work bleaker yet, living in a place where there are no prospects of improvement and your life is F*****...life is what you make of it....

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New immigrants to Canada in the past and especially today didn't encounter anything even remotely as dismal and hopeless as life on a reserve
many many immigrants have lived in places as dismal and worse as the reserves...I've known immigrants(including my family) who escaped starvation, genocidal wars, victims of government internment camps and torture, random execution, wondering every day is this the day the death squads come for me, as well as crushing poverty...many of those thing our natives have never experienced or could even imagine...sure it sucks to be poor but in Canada there is no excuse for staying that way, we all have the same opportunity to escape it...
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Doug_yvr Doug_yvr is offline
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then leave the reserve there is nothing stopping them, there are those who have done just that and done well...if you live an area where there is no work or few resources like many reserves then you leave, waiting around for your life to magically improve on it's own just isn't going to happen...the key is education, staying away from alcohol/drug abuse and a willingness to work hard...I've been around natives my entire life, I've played with them, partied with them, grown up with them, worked with them, been to their weddings and funerals, they're even part of my extended family but have no room for their self pity...quit school and your prospects are bleak, take up drugs even bleaker, no interest in work bleaker yet, living in a place where there are no prospects of improvement and your life is F*****...life is what you make of it....
And a kid is supposed to do this how? Their lives are screwed from the day they're born on some of these reserves, and they can't leave. By the time they're old enough to leave on their own their childhood has been one of abuse at home and sniffing outside it to escape the dismal existence. Not everyone has control over their own lives, especially children.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:18 AM
White Rabbit White Rabbit is offline
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Critizing the Harper government on the Omar Kadr issue is certainly reasonable and topical.

Critizing the Harper government for the handling of detainees in Afghanistan is also quite reasonable and topical.

But for Amnesty International to criticise the Harper Government, and calling it a stain on Canada's human rights record, for cutting the amount of taxpayer subsidies going to Women's political activist groups makes Amnesty International look like a bunch of idiots more concerned about subsidies for activists than actual issues.

I just lost a lot of respect for Amnesty International.

Women are not an oppressed minority in Canada. And using taxpayer subsidies to fund political activist groups is criminally stupid policy to begin with.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:28 AM
wyly wyly is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug_yvr View Post
And a kid is supposed to do this how? Their lives are screwed from the day they're born on some of these reserves, and they can't leave. By the time they're old enough to leave on their own their childhood has been one of abuse at home and sniffing outside it to escape the dismal existence. Not everyone has control over their own lives, especially children.
I'll concede that point has merit...
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:27 PM
Jazz Jazz is offline
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Originally Posted by wyly View Post
I guess it could have some effect....but I'm not that sympathetic to their plight...it sucks to be poor but that's the same situation literally millions of immigrants were in when they first arrived in Canada with no cash and not speaking the language...my father first arrived looking for work two months before the remainder of our family came over he was done to his last $2 when he finally found a job pushing cement in his best/only suit...the first winter here were very hard , food packages from the salvation army saw us through but after that we were self sufficient...no one forces natives to quit school, not to seek and keep a job, take up alcohol or drug use the opportunities are there for them just as they are for any immgrant that comes to Canada and to advance themselves...
Immigrants don't have to come here, they have a choice...stay home. The Natives are kind of stuck in a situation where they are beggars in their own rich land, which our white ancestors stole from them. I once suggested we should offer them one of the provinces, which ever one they would like to have as their own country, something similar to Quebec. Maybe, if they had something to aim for, to make their own to do as they like... perhaps they wouldn't be so depressed and suicidal. And we wouldn't have to feel so guilty. I know, most Whites wouldn't agree to that, but we could start slowly by first giving up portions of land and see how they would manage.
Do the Natives actually have a couple of representatives in the Government? For instance Minister of Indian Affairs should be a Native.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:51 PM
Jazz Jazz is offline
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Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post
Critizing the Harper government on the Omar Kadr issue is certainly reasonable and topical.

Critizing the Harper government for the handling of detainees in Afghanistan is also quite reasonable and topical.

But for Amnesty International to criticise the Harper Government, and calling it a stain on Canada's human rights record, for cutting the amount of taxpayer subsidies going to Women's political activist groups makes Amnesty International look like a bunch of idiots more concerned about subsidies for activists than actual issues.

I just lost a lot of respect for Amnesty International.

Women are not an oppressed minority in Canada. And using taxpayer subsidies to fund political activist groups is criminally stupid policy to begin with.
Did it say women's political activist groups? You have something against women? I hope not.
Maybe there is an imbalance between funding for men's groups and funding for women? It should be equal.

This is what it says in the report:
"The survey also slams the Harper government for stalled native land claims, and for cutting funds to groups that advance women's rights.

There is no mention of political activist groups. It would be good, if we knew exactly what specific programs had their funding slashed.
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:00 PM
Jazz Jazz is offline
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Good News!!!

That Amnesty report already drew results!

RCMP stop using nearly 600 older-model Tasers

Actually 1600 Tasers are being pulled out of service.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc..._tasers_090601

Goes to show how someone with a bit of clout can get things moving!!
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