Thread: Pledge of allegiance.

Originally Posted by RedWolf

It is the ideals and principals that I am pledging too, not the people in charge. And then their are the soldiers who lost life and limb in order for me to live in this country. I personally feel as if I would be disrespecting them if I chose not to make this pledge. This country is far from great and has many flaws and problems, but it is still one of the greatest nations in the world.

I have to agree here. You're not pledging your life and service to the "government". You're pledging it to the ideas of the United States. The idea that it's the best country on Earth. There's nothing wrong with some national pride, and I don't care what kind of indoctrination it is. And I rather like the last part..."with liberty and justice for all".

Originally Posted by Smartmouthwoman

Good for your teacher.

God aside, do you feel loyalty for your country, or wished you lived someplace else?

I would like to address this if I may. I think being an American is many more things than saying a pledge, saluting a flag, or not harming a certain bird. Just because you say or do these things, shows no more "loyalty" to ones country than one who does not. Being an American is a huge blessing and responsibility that cannot be measured by simple acts like the above.

The concept of even having a pledge of allegiance is troublesome to begin with. It stinks of nationalism. Whatever your teachers or classmates tell you, what you're doing is brilliant and very brave, and more people need to be doing exactly this. Incidentally, I'm from Scotland, and someone from my country was the one responsible for the "under god" part of the pledge, so on behalf of my country, I apologise.

If you love your country, do it by living your life and calling out its citizens or government when it screws up. That's true patriotism. Blind obedience and chanting a pledge is something far darker than patriotism.

Originally Posted by Smartmouthwoman

Good for your teacher.

God aside, do you feel loyalty for your country, or wished you lived someplace else?

Living in country that espouses freedom and then being required to say a silly pledge of allegience is counter to those freedoms. Is it not?

From my perspective, it is due to our elected representatives being "immoral" enough to bear false witness to our own supreme law of the land regarding the establishment of Religion. Is it any coincidence that we also don't have any anti-hypocrisy laws to go along with our McCarthy era phrase in our pledge.

Okay. So reading a handful of these posts finally got me to think about the pledge’s contents. It just dawned on me that it makes no sense whatsoever for me to recite it - even with the words “under God” omitted. So for now on I’ll just stand at attention out of respect for others reciting the pledge with a clenched fist of solidarity over my heart. That should suffice.

I have no sense of loyalty to the stars and stripes, only feel a bond with and cooperate with the state because I like the social contract I’m currently signed onto, commit to a set of principles and values instead of unconditionally defending any particular nation or regime, do not believe in supernatural beings or phenomena, reckon that ours is a union that should be divisible if people in any particular part of it someday want independence, and I’m unconvinced that the system in place satisfactorily affords my perception of liberty and justice for all.

To top it all off, it takes a solid red, UN, or Olympic flag to elicit any kind of emotional response in, or garner some awe from me nowadays. Heh. When I put it that way there is really no denying I am an ardent believer in cosmopolitanism. If anything, from time to time I may sing the “Hymn for Nations” when in the presence of a flag if a good opportunity arises. Oh well. To each their own I suppose, and props to the original poster for their courage!