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Old 03-05-2008, 08:26 AM
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Yeah, like the elightened system of laws which didn't allow our intell people in the CIA, NSA, DSA and FBI commuticate with each other which may have contributed to 19 highjackers boarding planes and flying them into buildings?
Bureaucratic rivalry is something we should abandon.

The rule of law is not.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:42 AM
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Bureaucratic rivalry is something we should abandon.

The rule of law is not.
This rivalry you refer to was set into law by the Clinton administration as a "firewall". (See: Assistant Attorney General Jamie Gorelick)
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:48 AM
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This rivalry you refer to was set into law by the Clinton administration as a "firewall". (See: Assistant Attorney General Jamie Gorelick)
Law is derived from the legislature; any protocol that promotes rivalry should be abandoned.

The fourth amendment should not.

Moreover, no rivalry stopped the August 6, 2001 memo from landing on the President's desk.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:59 AM
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Law is derived from the legislature; any protocol that promotes rivalry should be abandoned.

The fourth amendment should not.

Moreover, no rivalry stopped the August 6, 2001 memo from landing on the President's desk.
No, but that rivalry did stop that memo from having more specific data in it because we weren't investigating the 19 highjackers already here. Those agencies could have been more diligent in keeping track of what these guys were doing in this country. I forgot to add the INS as well as the state department and other local law enforcement agencies to the list above. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing so as a result we only had 20 pieces of a puzzle which has 200 pieces. Hard to get the whole picture that way.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:01 AM
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No, but that rivalry did stop that memo from having more specific data in it because we weren't investigating the 19 highjackers already here. Those agencies could have been more diligent in keeping track of what these guys were doing in this country. I forgot to add the INS as well as the state department and other local law enforcement agencies to the list above. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing so as a result we only had 20 pieces of a puzzle which has 200 pieces. Hard to get the whole picture that way.
That's fine. I agree: make the bureaucracy use "both hands."

The President didn't pursue it, either, though.

But this is a distraction from the topic: privacy violations by the FBI.

We can have investigative entities working together, and still observe the 4th amendment.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:11 AM
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That's fine. I agree: make the bureaucracy use "both hands."

The President didn't pursue it, either, though.

But this is a distraction from the topic: privacy violations by the FBI.

We can have investigative entities working together, and still observe the 4th amendment.
OK, I agree. Just to let you know, I used to be in the intel business and the government is very dillegent about not "spying" on our own citizens. We have a system of regulations called USSIDs which are strickly adhered to (as I know from personal experience) so when I hear libs "cry civil liberities violated" it kinda drives me nuts.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:11 AM
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I wonder how many people who whine about "privacy violations," have lots of skeletons in their closet, to begin with. How many of them are potheads, or meth heads, etc.? How many whiners have warrants out for them? How many go to bed at night, with their heads wrapped in tin foil?
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:19 AM
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I wonder how many people who whine about "privacy violations," have lots of skeletons in their closet, to begin with. How many of them are potheads, or meth heads, etc.? How many whiners have warrants out for them? How many go to bed at night, with their heads wrapped in tin foil?
You're referring to those who wrote the fourth ammendment, too, you know.

They were clearly concerned about privacy violations, and thus created the 4th amendment.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:20 AM
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OK, I agree. Just to let you know, I used to be in the intel business and the government is very dillegent about not "spying" on our own citizens. We have a system of regulations called USSIDs which are strickly adhered to (as I know from personal experience) so when I hear libs "cry civil liberities violated" it kinda drives me nuts.
That's cool; I'm glad it drives you nuts.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:24 AM
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You're referring to those who wrote the fourth ammendment, too, you know.

They were clearly concerned about privacy violations, and thus created the 4th amendment.
Those who wrote the fourth amendment had absolutely no clue as to how things would be today. If they knew we'd be infiltrated as much as we are now, I believe they would have re-worded it a little.

It's very hard to make comparisons for the "age of sail" vs. today. The only communication they had back then was by letter, that took weeks to get across the ocean. None of this "instant communication" that we have now.

Our enemies are cheating at 'the game,' but we're still worried about playing by the rules, which have been obsolete for 100 years.
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