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Old 06-30-2008, 09:25 AM
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Default Does the government have a right to draft soldiers?

In this thread I wanted to discuss the philosophical and legal justification (or lack thereof) for a military draft. I know when it comes down to it, the government will draft people regardless. They just do what they want with the heavy hand of power. But is there any real justification for it, or is it purely an abuse of power?

I will kick off the subject thusly:

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Old 07-03-2008, 01:15 AM
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Unless as punishment for a crime

This means that they can draft prisoners. (As well as they should)


Considering the large sum of prisoners, this could provide more then applicable quantities of troops. Alternatively people already serving time in prison could be willing to joined the armed forces to exempt them from prison sentence.


Evidently it'd be a great way to force criminals to give back to the community. It's not technically a draft, it's constitutionally legit, but people would still probably complain..
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Profit View Post
Unless as punishment for a crime

This means that they can draft prisoners. (As well as they should)


Considering the large sum of prisoners, this could provide more then applicable quantities of troops. Alternatively people already serving time in prison could be willing to joined the armed forces to exempt them from prison sentence.


Evidently it'd be a great way to force criminals to give back to the community. It's not technically a draft, it's constitutionally legit, but people would still probably complain..
Quantity of soldiers, definitely. But what about the quality? I'm not sure how prisoners are going to feel about fighting and dying.

Also, I'm against a draft. You can't force someone to die for your stupid cause.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quantity of soldiers, definitely. But what about the quality? I'm not sure how prisoners are going to feel about fighting and dying.
True, but if they refuse it could be liable for charges of treason, and then they'll die anyway. Not to mention some prisoners are smart, they'll realize being a soldier is giving them a second chance.

A: Regardless of what they did previously, the media will depict them as heroes. Selfless guys dying for their country. Heel-face-turn irl.

B: They'll have a purpose. They'll be able to do something constructive as opposed to just sitting in prison, rotting, wasting our tax dollars.

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Also, I'm against a draft. You can't force someone to die for your stupid cause.
Sure you can. Prisoners have no rights. They didn't care about taking away ours, so why should we care about taking away theirs? I don't believe in prisons, I think prisons just promote crime to be done more and more. (Proof is I'm right, there's more prisoners then ever)

If you want crime rates to go down, give them three choices.

Poverty (Government seizures, fines, slashed paychecks with fortified taxation)
Service (The beautiful prison-draft system)
Or death (Hanging, lethal injection, doesn't matter)


These basically are the only options they give us as innocent people.. (Robbery, human trafficking, murder) This is justice. It is equal treatment as they have treated others. They had rights in court, they have a right to a fair trial, a jury, and a lawyer. But once they are officially guilty, they no longer have rights. They are now a burden on society and must be dealt with accordingly..


This is why I think kids should be able to vote, children are pure, and love justice. Adults are twisted, and prefer mercy...
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:34 PM
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There's essentially a draft on lower class soldiers already. Often, they are faced with no other alternative to further their schooling than through military service, and they are thus forced by the compulsion of economic circumstance, which can be just as tyrannical an authority structure as direct government compulsion.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:38 PM
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There's essentially a draft on lower class soldiers already. Often, they are faced with no other alternative to further their schooling than through military service, and they are thus forced by the compulsion of economic circumstance, which can be just as tyrannical an authority structure as direct government compulsion.
That's not a draft though. They have a choice. There are alternative out there if they are willing to work for them.

Sometimes the military is the best alternative, but it is never the only alternative.

That being said, no, I don't think the government has the right to force conscription. Voluntary enlistment should be one of the main factors the government looks at before going to war.

Will the people support this war enough to die for it?
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Profit View Post
True, but if they refuse it could be liable for charges of treason, and then they'll die anyway. Not to mention some prisoners are smart, they'll realize being a soldier is giving them a second chance.

A: Regardless of what they did previously, the media will depict them as heroes. Selfless guys dying for their country. Heel-face-turn irl.

B: They'll have a purpose. They'll be able to do something constructive as opposed to just sitting in prison, rotting, wasting our tax dollars.


Sure you can. Prisoners have no rights. They didn't care about taking away ours, so why should we care about taking away theirs? I don't believe in prisons, I think prisons just promote crime to be done more and more. (Proof is I'm right, there's more prisoners then ever)

If you want crime rates to go down, give them three choices.

Poverty (Government seizures, fines, slashed paychecks with fortified taxation)
Service (The beautiful prison-draft system)
Or death (Hanging, lethal injection, doesn't matter)


These basically are the only options they give us as innocent people.. (Robbery, human trafficking, murder) This is justice. It is equal treatment as they have treated others. They had rights in court, they have a right to a fair trial, a jury, and a lawyer. But once they are officially guilty, they no longer have rights. They are now a burden on society and must be dealt with accordingly..


This is why I think kids should be able to vote, children are pure, and love justice. Adults are twisted, and prefer mercy...
I meant regular citizens.

I'm not sure about prisoners.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
There's essentially a draft on lower class soldiers already. Often, they are faced with no other alternative to further their schooling than through military service, and they are thus forced by the compulsion of economic circumstance, which can be just as tyrannical an authority structure as direct government compulsion.
There are jobs other than the military you know.

There's also this thing called a "loan" that you can get.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:00 PM
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I believe this is a congressional power, congress can institute a draft if they want, and if we the people don't want it, we petition or vote them out. I believe the SCOTUS would and probably has upheld congressional authority to do so.

Personally, I think anytime congress authorizes a war or "police action", they should institute a draft for the duration of said war.

Having "skin in the game" should be a factor in Americans decisions to go war.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:11 PM
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The OP seems clear on the legalities.

Philisophically it is up to the individual. If you really support a war, sign your arse up for it. If not, don't go. But to force you opinion onto someone else to the extent that they are fighting your fight for you, goes beyond what I would consider the right thing allow in our society.

We shouldn't be in any wars in the first place, and any "police action" that requires that much man-power is an illegal war in my eyes.


In summary: No draft
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