Thread: When a Christian joins the Masons...

You've already made up your mind about it without actually going through it. I can try to explain it to you, but you're close minded and locked down. I did my research and I did my soul searching before joining, I'm happy with my life and my choices.

Originally Posted by KSigMason

You've already made up your mind about it without actually going through it. I can try to explain it to you, but you're close minded and locked down. I did my research and I did my soul searching before joining, I'm happy with my life and my choices.

But is Jesus? You're quite close minded too. Nothing anybody could say could convince you the masons are incompatible with Christianity.

Originally Posted by Clausewitz

But is Jesus? You're quite close minded too. Nothing anybody could say could convince you the masons are incompatible with Christianity.

Because it is compatible. The crap thrown at Freemasonry is nothing more fanatical propaganda.

I find the religion of the insecure insufferable and evil.

Here's some interesting reads I've found:

On December 2002 the Grand Secretary of the United Grand Lodge of England R.A.H. Morrow writes to the Archbishop of Canterbury:

"Dear Archbishop

I write in response to the reports in The Independent newspaper of your views on Freemasonry.

According to the reports:

a) you have doubts on the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity and believe that elements of the ritual may have a Satanic basis

b) you believe Freemasonry to be both a secret society and a self-serving network

c) you have in the past not appointed to sensitive senior posts candidates who are Freemasons and intend to continue that practice.

For nearly 300 years Freemasonry has existed in an organised way in England and Wales. During that period hundreds of thousands of committed Christians (clergy and laity) have found no incompatibility between their Christian faith and the principles and practices of Freemasonry. Indeed many have testified that their membership of Freemasonry has strengthened their faith and, in some cases, brought them back into active church membership.

The prime and inalienable qualification for admission into Freemasonry is a belief in God. An individual's religion is a matter for his conscience, and Freemasonry will not interfere in or in any way comment on religious matters. As a result our membership encompasses Christians of all denominations, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc., who meet together in harmony, knowing that their religions differ but not allowing those differences to come between them on Masonic occasions.

The suggestion that Freemasonry is "Satanically inspired" in its rituals would be risible were it not for the fact that it questions the basis of the faiths of over 300,000 Freemasons under the United Grand Lodge of England, whatever their religion may be. Even a small amount of elementary research would have shown how nonsensical this dreadful assertion is, and would have enabled you to avoid giving deep and gratuitous offence to so many who are encouraged in every form of Freemasonry to be true to their God above all other considerations.

As for the claim that Freemasonry is a "secret organisation", it must surely be a very peculiar "secret" society which makes its rules and aims available to the public; publishes annual lists of its national and local leaders together with the dates and places of meeting of all of its units; opens its national headquarters to the general public on a daily basis; maintains national and local web sites on the Internet; gives regular briefings to the media; and provides spokesmen to speak anywhere about its nature and activities. Each Freemason is at perfect liberty to tell whomsoever he pleases that he is a Freemason. Indeed Freemasonry is one of the few organisations to have been specifically declared not to be a secret society. In July 2001 the European Court of Human Rights ruled that (a) Freemasonry was neither a secret, criminal nor an illegal organisation, and (b) that in making appointments or promotions it is illegal to discriminate against a candidate simply because he is a Freemason.

Rather than being a self-serving network, the opposite is true. On at least six occasions during the process of becoming a Freemason the new member is told that it is contrary to our principles and rules to use his membership to gain any form of advantage for himself or anyone else. Any attempt to do so will result in disciplinary proceedings, with sanctions running from admonition to irrevocable expulsion.

I have enclosed two booklets and some leaflets, which explain the background to Freemasonry and how it relates to society in general. The booklet "Your Questions Answered" deals in particular with the myths which surround Freemasonry.

I also extend to you an invitation to meet privately with some senior Freemasons to discuss at the true source any doubts you may have, in preference to simply putting your faith in secondary and unreliable information. Your three immediate predecessors each came here for lunch and found it an interesting, stimulating and enjoyable experience. I realise that you have much to consider at the present, and that it may not be convenient to accept this invitation immediately. I trust that you will permit me to write to you again after your Enthronement to reaffirm our wish to welcome you here and show that your doubts about Freemasonry have no justification in fact.

Yours sincerely

R A H Morrow

Grand Secretary

The Archbishop of Canterbury replies with this letter:

23 January 2003

Dear Mr Morrow

I have been sorry to learn of the distress of a considerable number of Freemasons. It is true that a great deal of upset and hurt has been caused by the newspaper reports about my purported views on Freemasonry. In replying to private correspondence, I had no intention of starting a public debate nor of questioning the good faith and generosity of individual freemasons and I regret the tone and content of the media coverage.

Much of the distress has been due to what amounts to a serious misrepresentation of views I am supposed to hold. The quoted statements about the "satanic" character of Masonic ceremonies and other matters did not come from me and do not represent my judgement. Since my late father was a member of the Craft for many years, I have had every opportunity of observing the probity of individual members.

Where anxieties exist, however, they are in relation not to Freemasonry but to Christian ministry, and. my letter simply reflected a personal unease about Christian ministers subscribing to what could be and often is understood (or misunderstood) as a private system of profession and initiation, involving the taking of oaths of loyalty. Concerns like these have led to a number of debates within the church in recent years and it is clear that there are still widely differing views held with sincerity and honesty about the compatibility of certain aspects of Freemasonry with Christian belief, ministry and, service.

My statement about resisting the appointment of freemasons to certain posts in Wales needs to be understood against the background of the belief that the church and I had deliberately advanced the cause of Freemasons. In saying that I had resisted the appointment of Freemasons to certain posts I was not suggesting that people had been blackballed, but asserting that I was satisfied that membership of the Craft was neither a disqualifier nor an advantage.

I welcome the manner in which Freemasons have engaged in debate and especially the increasing openness of recent years. Their commitment to charitable causes and the welfare of the wider community is beyond question.

Yours sincerely,

Rowan Cantuar

Originally Posted by Clausewitz

I realize no mattter what or who I cite, as long as it disagrees with Masonry you will reject. If you are comfortable praying to Jesus using the same name that people use to worship demons (Masons of other faiths) be my guess. But if I were you I would reexamine my beliefs. You seem to adopt a stance that is in direct opposition to the Gospel, such as your acceptance of homosexuality. Since we are Christians accepting of any sin? I suspect you will reject the article I am about to post, because there is no way these former Masons could possible know as much about the "Craft" as you do. Hopefully it'll reach somebody else...



So you've got a decision to make...do you refuse to talk to your Mason brothers so you don't violate the rules of your lodge, or do you decide that the Bible is the most important thing in your life and at least advise them they are on the way to hell? It all depends on where your allegiance lays.

That is very interesting, but also very misleading.
I researched the subject for some time, mainly because of personal curiosity, as well as the mystery surrounding Masons.
As a devout Christian, I came to the conclusion that the fact that many of our founding fathers were Mason served as a foundation for our constitutional Republic, to embrace and afford Freedom of Religion to everyone, allowing everyone to pray to his/her God in his/her own way, or not pray at all.
You see, our God is the God of free will, the God of 'open invitation'. We may take Him up on it, or turn the other way.
God weeps for those who do not follow this invitation, and they will eventually suffer the consequence, but its His observance of what we do with the free will granted by Him, that we are judged on in the end.
So every man, woman and child, and in this case, every Mason, has to make a choice. No one is forced, and what's more, we will be judged on how we interact with, and judge, each other.

It is interesting how those who wish to use politics or religion have always opposed Masonry. The tyrants and dictators of the world can not tolerate free thought, be they religious or political tyrants.

It is amazing how some in a nation very much built upon the ideas of the Masonic Constitution claim to love that nation, but hate Masonry.

Masonry is built upon Christian principles, but unlike some who call themselves Christians, has faith in Christianity. It is why a Mason can sit in Lodge with someone of different beliefs and treat them as equal. We believe if we simply live as Christians those who are not Christians will seek "light" in this regard.

Modern Christianity is the only religion to never tell a man to convert or die. Masonry says man should have freedom of Religion.

Many Christians think they along have the answers and "correct" understanding of scripture. They are as the Catholic Church was some 700 years ago when it ordered the stoning to death of those who said the world was not flat.

Those who call themselves Christians, but hate Masonry, enjoy the bounties, and freedoms created by Masons when this country was founded. It is impossible to remain intellectually honest and dislike Masonry and claim to love America. The two are simply intertwined and Masonry is the greatest cornerstone of this nation.

The first document printed on the mechanical printing press was our Holy Bible, this was so mankind no longer needed a holy man to interact between him and go, he could understand God's commandments for himself. And this was the beginning of the end of the Church using religion and lack of knowledge of scripture to control and rule over mankind.

The second document printed was the Masonic Constitution, which showed mankind how to organize societies into fictional groups.

Yes, Masons accept those of differing religions in our mist. We respect the right given to us by Christ himself for each man to make his own choices. And we acknowledge if we ourselves live as Christians those among us will likely join us. This is the strength of faith those who would use religious babble and double speak to attack Masonry know nothing of.

Our Knights Templar fought the Muslims protecting the Christians as they traveled to Jerusalem. And today, our Knights Templar take a binding oath to promote the Christian faith over all others. Few who run around promoting their Christianity have gone to such steps to learn, educate themselves, and taken such a binding oath. Few indeed.

But that does not stop those wishing to use faith, of any color, to impose their will upon others. It does not stop the arrogance that will not acknowledge one's own ignorance. That is the job of the tyrant, be he religious or political. Either as as likely to end in the slavery of mankind, and oppression of all we hold dear. And as we can see, just as Masonry set in a place a nation of Religious freedom which has caused the rapid spread of Judeo Christian values throughout the globe, it has not stopped the linger hatred of freedom, independent thought, and rampant arrogance among those who would use Religion to promote themselves and for their own selfish interest.

One man has been trying to rule over another since Cain and Able. Today, the tools used are different, but the intent is entirely the same.

I have a question about this and I have no real dog in this fight, I am a non practicing roman catholic and dont pray or goto church (anymore) and like to consider myself just another Heathan.

BUT.....

I read through most of this and I saw a few things I wanted to ask. I talked to a few masons who were willing to give me information about joining and asking my local lodge for informationg (I was looking into it because my uncle was joining in a group from the Dallas Tx area but he told me he cannot join because of various things but was trying to learn teachings to better himself.)

I read one post saying "Is Jesus ok with your decisions" (Sorry I am doing it by memory and rushed right now at the office.

My question is Jesus is the son of god, and no one is to be held higher then GOD, if you dont worship the saints you shouldnt worship jesus as god either? (I actually hear this alot)

Jesus isnt god but the son and you should worship god only?

My other question is if people befor christ beleived in many religions and there were many religions prior then that, (Sun god, anubis who could of also just been DEATH, and so on and so forth) why can there only be one god? Why not many and god is just Zeus from the norse gods? Satan would also just be haydes.

I am not trying to bring down the religion I just wonder because I have gone to many church's and everyones interpritation varies depending on where your at.

Those questions I would say would be something to bring to a priest or as you are non-practicing, I'd say ask your heart.

That's why religions are separated into monotheistic and polytheistic. I love the study of religion and seeing the differences, and similarities, between them all.

Originally Posted by Clausewitz

...When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.
2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.
3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.
4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.
5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.
6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.
7. Masonry makes Christians take a universalist approach in their prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.
8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.
9. By taking the Masonic obligation, the Christian is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

http://www.gotquestions.org/free-masonry.html

I'm no fan of English-style freemasonry, but this is quite nutty. Masonry is not a religious organization, and I cannot see how anything it advocated contradicts mainstream Christianity.

Originally Posted by KSigMason

Those questions I would say would be something to bring to a priest or as you are non-practicing, I'd say ask your heart.

That's why religions are separated into monotheistic and polytheistic. I love the study of religion and seeing the differences, and similarities, between them all.

Ive been kicked out of church befor so I know where asking questions is, I also like to learn about all religions mainly because theres always something to learn.