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Thread: When a Christian joins the Masons...

  1. Default When a Christian joins the Masons...

    ...When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

    1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.
    2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.
    3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.
    4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.
    5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.
    6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.
    7. Masonry makes Christians take a universalist approach in their prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.
    8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.
    9. By taking the Masonic obligation, the Christian is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/free-masonry.html
    Got Questions?

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.


  2. #2

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    1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.
    We do not say that by good works alone will you gain entrance in heaven.

    2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets
    Where does it say that?

    3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.
    It's a fine line, but the Lodge is composed of men all faiths, but we do not seek to stifle your faith nor do we elevate one above another in order to keep peace and harmony in the Lodge. When we pray we use a generic prayer so that the individual Mason may pray to the God of his choosing. When I pray I pray to Christ.

    4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.
    In reference to Masonry you are in the dark until you go through the degrees. It does not say you are religious in the dark.

    5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.
    We never take the Lords name in vain and in fact we are Charged (the charge is given at the end of the ceremony, usually after the lecture - and is equally binding as our oaths) where we are told never to take the name of our God in vain, but to only say speak of God with reverence as a creature owes to his Creator.

    6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.
    Negative. Freemasonry never manifests GAOTU into a form, but leaves how the individual believes his god to be. To me, GAOTU is the God of the Christian Bible.

    7. Masonry makes Christians take a universalist approach in their prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.
    I have explained this above. Also note that this is mostly just in the Blue Lodge, but in such bodies like the York Rite, we pray to Christ.

    8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.
    Freemasonry has no plan of salvation nor does it seek to. It leaves your salvation to your individual faith.

    9. By taking the Masonic obligation, the Christian is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.
    The only pollution I've seen is from the religiously insecure in their attempts to spread intolerance and hatred.

    EDIT: As for the link, most of what was on that site was bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and false.
    Last edited by KSigMason; Jun 27 2011 at 07:10 AM.
    Coincidences turn into Conspiracies when all inconvenient information is ignored.

    Traveling Templar - 17APR2014

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clausewitz View Post
    ...When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

    1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.
    2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.
    3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.
    4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.
    5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.
    6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.
    7. Masonry makes Christians take a universalist approach in their prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.
    8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.
    9. By taking the Masonic obligation, the Christian is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/free-masonry.html
    the site you reference has confusing and false information. from what I can tell, your opinion of Masonry is wrong and misleading.
    To Boldly Go

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starbow View Post
    the site you reference has confusing and false information. from what I can tell, your opinion of Masonry is wrong and misleading.
    It doesn't matter what site I use. As long as it's critical of Masonry, you will disagree and call it misleading. Nothing I can post will change your mind. Not even the testimony of former Masons. If I'm wrong then this should suffice.

    http://emfj.org/mensclub.htm
    Got Questions?

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clausewitz View Post
    It doesn't matter what site I use. As long as it's critical of Masonry, you will disagree and call it misleading. Nothing I can post will change your mind. Not even the testimony of former Masons. If I'm wrong then this should suffice.

    http://emfj.org/mensclub.htm
    The EMFJ site is a joke and most of those men's stories are full of (*)(*)(*)(*).

    You're not here for truth, but rather to critique what you truly don't understand nor ever will with the ignorance I've seen from you. Intolerance and hatred is really an ugly thing.
    Coincidences turn into Conspiracies when all inconvenient information is ignored.

    Traveling Templar - 17APR2014

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KSigMason View Post
    We do not say that by good works alone will you gain entrance in heaven.


    Where does it say that?


    It's a fine line, but the Lodge is composed of men all faiths, but we do not seek to stifle your faith nor do we elevate one above another in order to keep peace and harmony in the Lodge. When we pray we use a generic prayer so that the individual Mason may pray to the God of his choosing. When I pray I pray to Christ.


    In reference to Masonry you are in the dark until you go through the degrees. It does not say you are religious in the dark.


    We never take the Lords name in vain and in fact we are Charged (the charge is given at the end of the ceremony, usually after the lecture - and is equally binding as our oaths) where we are told never to take the name of our God in vain, but to only say speak of God with reverence as a creature owes to his Creator.


    Negative. Freemasonry never manifests GAOTU into a form, but leaves how the individual believes his god to be. To me, GAOTU is the God of the Christian Bible.


    I have explained this above. Also note that this is mostly just in the Blue Lodge, but in such bodies like the York Rite, we pray to Christ.


    Freemasonry has no plan of salvation nor does it seek to. It leaves your salvation to your individual faith.


    The only pollution I've seen is from the religiously insecure in their attempts to spread intolerance and hatred.

    EDIT: As for the link, most of what was on that site was bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and false.
    I realize no mattter what or who I cite, as long as it disagrees with Masonry you will reject. If you are comfortable praying to Jesus using the same name that people use to worship demons (Masons of other faiths) be my guess. But if I were you I would reexamine my beliefs. You seem to adopt a stance that is in direct opposition to the Gospel, such as your acceptance of homosexuality. Since we are Christians accepting of any sin? I suspect you will reject the article I am about to post, because there is no way these former Masons could possible know as much about the "Craft" as you do. Hopefully it'll reach somebody else...

    Suppose that a group of pagans got together and decided that they wanted to form a men’s club and each man independently decided that he wanted to start every meeting with a prayer to his demon god. They could all agree to this, but they would have a rough time selecting a name which all could embrace. Hindus would want to worship Vishnu, and of course, the men of other pagan religions would want to worship their demon god by the name they commonly use. They could not agree to use the name for the demon god of any one pagan religion without favoring one religion over another. Additionally, if they choose to use an obviously pagan name for the object of worship, they will have a hard time getting even immature Christians to join the club and join in worship with them. (And that is exactly what the demons would want.) If they choose a neutral name, such as the Sovereign Grand Creator of the Universe, and open all of their prayers in his name, all of the pagans can be satisfied. But are they now worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the Bible? No, they are still worshipping demons.

    Now consider the situation if a Christian were to walk into a Hindu temple and take part in the worship service, assuming that he was worshipping Jesus, by joining in corporate prayer to Vishnu. Would the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob be willing to accept worship in this manner? The answer is found in Paul's first letter to the church at Corinth. Paul wrote:

    ". . . the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?" 1 Corinthians 10:20-22

    Now consider the situation if the Hindus agree to change the name which they use from Vishnu to Sovereign Grand Creator of the Universe. Even if they are able to agree to change the name that they use to identify their demon, elements of pagan worship rituals, such as circumambulation, remain. With a substitute name for the demon, would it then be acceptable for a Christian to participate in the Hindu ceremony of worship? What if the Hindus decide that when a man who calls himself a Christian officiates at the services, they will allow him to close prayers to Vishnu in Jesus' name. Would that make it "Christian?" If over time, the number of men who claimed to be Christians increased and the number of Hindus decreased, until finally there were no more men who professed to be Hindu taking part in the Hindu rituals of worship, would it then be "Christian?"

    How is this different from worship in the pagan men’s club? Of course, the men’s club would claim that their club is not a religion. Is the worship of demons through prayer made any less idolatrous by the claim that it is not a religion?

    These situations accurately model the worship which takes place in Masonic Lodges today. Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of all religions worship that one God using a variety of different names. In a Masonic Lodge, all join in corporate prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe, (GAOTU).

    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds (2 John 9-11)

    With an understanding of this passage, it is possible to know that those who organized the paganism known as Freemasonry were not Christians. They were not continuing in the teaching of the Scriptures. Would Christians substitute the name GAOTU for God and do away with the name of Jesus so that pagans could join with them in prayer without being offended? No, Christians would have shared Jesus with the pagans so that they too might have salvation through faith in Him.

    It is true that there is one God. However, all men, specifically pagans, do not worship that one God. The worshippers of Baal learned the truth on Mt. Carmel. Baal is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Judgment was swift on Mt. Carmel. (See 1 Kings 18:20-40.) The god of Freemasonry, the GAOTU, is also not the God of the Bible. Will God judge Masons who do not repent and continue to worship the GAOTU any differently than he judged the worshippers of Baal?

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

    What will Jesus tell the Mason who claims to be a Christian?

    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

    By joining in pagan worship ceremonies, WE sinned against God. When we realized that the GAOTU was not the God of the Bible, we claimed the promise found in John's first letter:

    This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    If you are a Christian who has become ensnared in Freemasonry, we urge you to confess your involvement in Freemasonry as sin and renounce, as we have.

    Jesus wants to forgive you, but his forgiveness is dependant on your confession and repentance.

    http://emfj.org/mensclub.htm
    So you've got a decision to make...do you refuse to talk to your Mason brothers so you don't violate the rules of your lodge, or do you decide that the Bible is the most important thing in your life and at least advise them they are on the way to hell? It all depends on where your allegiance lays.
    Got Questions?

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KSigMason View Post
    The EMFJ site is a joke and most of those men's stories are full of (*)(*)(*)(*).

    You're not here for truth, but rather to critique what you truly don't understand nor ever will with the ignorance I've seen from you. Intolerance and hatred is really an ugly thing.
    Is the Apostle a joke too, or he is merely intolerant and hateful?

    Do I [Paul] mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (1 Corinthians 10:19-20)
    Got Questions?

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

  8. #8

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    If you wouldn't pick bull(*)(*)(*)(*) hate sites I wouldn't pick them apart. GAOTU is not a demon, it's a generic term. I am not praying to Demons or any such nonsense. I have not seen any contradictions from Freemasonry with my religious beliefs.

    My political beliefs are my own and for the most part I don't let my (*)religious turn me into a tyrant. I know, I'm a bad person for allowing freedom to spread. I may say I don't care for civil unions, but I don't accept homosexuality outright. I tolerate it for the sake of freedom, but that has nothing to do with my religious beliefs. My political beliefs, as I said, are my own and not the opinion of Freemasonry. If you followed Masonic news, you'd know that there is a Grand Lodge who expelled a member for coming out of the closet.

    As for your article from EMFJ, I've seen this on another site, and replied to it. As for the whole prayer, it is to the individual Brother to whom he prays. Who are to tell me who I'm praying to in my heart.(*)

    It's very clear the EMFJ don't get the concept of GAOTU, and neither do you. From everything I've read on their site there is a great deal they don't understand or ideas they didn't grasp, or confused it. I will say not every Lodge is good with helping members with their studies or proficiency so they are often left wanting. (*)So many don't know the history of the Craft and the evolution of the rituals and ceremonies. They don't know the etymology of the words and terms.

    Walking into Lodge is not the same as going to religious temple. That is apples and oranges. Freemasonry doesn't do sacrifices. In fact, most of the rituals and legends surrounding Freemasonry come from the Bible.

    We don't worship in the Lodge, we do prayers, but we don't do idol worship or sacrifices. This is a lie and someone misconstruing the facts.

    [quote]Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of all religions worship that one God using a variety of different names.[quote]
    where does it teach this? Reference please.

    Fun fact (slight derail), did you know that the word Baal (while it is used to name the Canaanite god) it is also used to describe someone, is the name of a city, and I think a king is called Baal?

    What will Jesus tell the Mason who claims to be a Christian?
    Depends.

    When Masonry talks about darkness they are talking about the knowledge of the Craft. It is true to say until you pass through the degrees you are in darkness in regards to Masonry. Nowhere in Masonry do we say you are in darkness in relation to God.

    The intolerance shown here is the same intolerance and hatred which has stained the name of my God and Savior. This extremism, fanaticism borders on evil if not kept in check.

    As Freemasonry isn't a religion I don't need to choose as it doesn't affect my faith. The Bible is important to me, but not mans opinion or rather perversion of something they don't understand.

    You come here with teeth bared and demands of intolerance, and you expect me to sit with you? (*)You don't like us because we don't fall in line of your authoritarian views and will never.
    Coincidences turn into Conspiracies when all inconvenient information is ignored.

    Traveling Templar - 17APR2014

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clausewitz View Post
    Is the Apostle a joke too, or he is merely intolerant and hateful?

    Do I [Paul] mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (1 Corinthians 10:19-20)
    Well luckily I don't participate with demons.
    Coincidences turn into Conspiracies when all inconvenient information is ignored.

    Traveling Templar - 17APR2014

  10. Default

    [quote=KSigMason;4103969]If you wouldn't pick bull(*)(*)(*)(*) hate sites I wouldn't pick them apart. GAOTU is not a demon, it's a generic term. I am not praying to Demons or any such nonsense. I have not seen any contradictions from Freemasonry with my religious beliefs.

    My political beliefs are my own and for the most part I don't let my (*)religious turn me into a tyrant. I know, I'm a bad person for allowing freedom to spread. I may say I don't care for civil unions, but I don't accept homosexuality outright. I tolerate it for the sake of freedom, but that has nothing to do with my religious beliefs. My political beliefs, as I said, are my own and not the opinion of Freemasonry. If you followed Masonic news, you'd know that there is a Grand Lodge who expelled a member for coming out of the closet.

    As for your article from EMFJ, I've seen this on another site, and replied to it. As for the whole prayer, it is to the individual Brother to whom he prays. Who are to tell me who I'm praying to in my heart.(*)

    It's very clear the EMFJ don't get the concept of GAOTU, and neither do you. From everything I've read on their site there is a great deal they don't understand or ideas they didn't grasp, or confused it. I will say not every Lodge is good with helping members with their studies or proficiency so they are often left wanting. (*)So many don't know the history of the Craft and the evolution of the rituals and ceremonies. They don't know the etymology of the words and terms.

    Walking into Lodge is not the same as going to religious temple. That is apples and oranges. Freemasonry doesn't do sacrifices. In fact, most of the rituals and legends surrounding Freemasonry come from the Bible.

    We don't worship in the Lodge, we do prayers, but we don't do idol worship or sacrifices. This is a lie and someone misconstruing the facts.

    [quote]Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of all religions worship that one God using a variety of different names.
    where does it teach this? Reference please.

    Fun fact (slight derail), did you know that the word Baal (while it is used to name the Canaanite god) it is also used to describe someone, is the name of a city, and I think a king is called Baal?


    Depends.

    When Masonry talks about darkness they are talking about the knowledge of the Craft. It is true to say until you pass through the degrees you are in darkness in regards to Masonry. Nowhere in Masonry do we say you are in darkness in relation to God.

    The intolerance shown here is the same intolerance and hatred which has stained the name of my God and Savior. This extremism, fanaticism borders on evil if not kept in check.

    As Freemasonry isn't a religion I don't need to choose as it doesn't affect my faith. The Bible is important to me, but not mans opinion or rather perversion of something they don't understand.

    You come here with teeth bared and demands of intolerance, and you expect me to sit with you? (*)You don't like us because we don't fall in line of your authoritarian views and will never.
    I'm not telling you youre not praying to God, the Father. What I'm saying is you are praying next to people who pray to demons. And such events are forbidden. Freemasonry may not be a religion in the sense that all faiths are welcome to join, but they do have beliefs that are contradictory to the Bible. Who brought you out of the darkness? Your lodge or Jesus? Think carefully.
    Got Questions?

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

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