Thread: If the theory is proven a conspiracy has taken place

The term 'conspiracy theory' has an opposite effect when people hear it (the term came in the collective mind via politics/media, like all political terms), they think everything that happened in history just occured and could not have been masterminded or conspired by a group, but e.g. empires do not just appear they are carefully planned by a group of elites and other people inside the system. Just one clear example. The other very clear example is 9/11, the attacks must have been masterminded by people, masterminded, because these attacks need accurate planning to execute.
Thus a conspiracy theory is not an odd thing, it is normal that people come up with theories (because of the suspicious parts), because conspiracies and secret things happen all the time throughout history (JFK has warned about secret societies, he knew to much)
The problem is, people do not have the ability to investigate a suspicious historical event, and the gov or system never investigates an event, and when they do it looks unserious or is handled in a way that is different of what people expected, never details are shown, video recordings are kept away from the people (and lawyers too), and so on. The system never does a true and open investigation, and the (by the system financed and controlled) media is always on the side of the system.
The first question to ask is, was the event a conspiracy or not. From that a theory can be formed, and when that theory is proven (by using fact, forensic evidence, video recordings/photos), next must be found out who was part of the conspiracy, the most difficult part, because of the secrecy.
Always seperate theory and conspiracy, because first the theory must be proven. This is why they connected the two words to 'conspiracy theory', they use this term (against people) when people find an historical even odd and suspicious for only one reason, to stop people from discussing the event openly.

The problem lies in the definition of "proven". Some people think their opinion is proof enough and thus think the conspiracy is no longer a theory, but fact, even when evidence exists that directly refutes their theory.

For instance, you think 9/11 HAD to be an inside job because the planning had to be accurate to execute. It is your OPINION that the necessity of accurate planning eliminates any other possible scenario. Your opinion is not based on reality, but on a need for a conspiracy. Pretending a couple people can't sit down and plan out an attack simply because they're not on the inside shows a distinct level of irrationality. Why can't they? Al Qaeda's plan relied on catching everyone by surprise and it almost worked. 3 out of 4 planes made it to their destination. Al Qaeda knew the weaknesses in our airport security and used them to their advantage.

It is when you get into the conspiracy theories of an inside job where it becomes extremely complex, and the more complex a theory gets, the harder it is to believe it is even possible, much less probable.. It would be nearly impossible to cover up a single attack, yet there were 4 on 9/11. You would literally need thousands to tens of thousands of people in on the conspiracy. Such a large conspiracy is, for all intents and purposes, unworkable, especially over time.

It seems to get even more confusing with all the misinformation tossed in by both sides of the argument, for confusion sake.
　
　
I don't think anybody knows or fully grasps the reality of what actually happened that day.
　
You have a situation here that needed to be immediately dealt with. The public demanded answers, immediate action, and a show of confidence from a capable authority to provide the assurance of stability/control or at least the impression of it at all costs. The government has lied to the people on more than a few occasions, anyone who doesn’t believe that is a ding bat for sure, and when the urgency was a lot less critical than on this instance too.
　
　
It simply looks on the surface that too many pieces of the puzzle was forced into place out of convenience with little to no concern for the actual truth or the reality of the situation.
　
　
Was it an inside job?? Couldn't tell you. Is it possible that some people within the government know a lot more than they are letting on, or willing to discuss and doing their very best not to allow that information to become public knowledge? You better bet your arse they are!!
　
That is where all this conspiracy "theory" nonsense comes from. They made it too easy to be misconstrued/suspicious, and most likely for reasons we the people simply are not privy too, for the protection of a few or maybe even for our own good as a whole. But in any case, this has been allowed to snowball, and I believe it was allowed to become that way for a specific reason.
　
　
Arguing about it doesn't seem to be helping anything, just creates more suspicion and ill will towards one another.
　
　
Who are you Pt911 that you spend so much of your time debunking the debunkers? 46 years old? Don't you have a job? A life out side the PF? Or is this your job??

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

It seems to get even more confusing with all the misinformation tossed in by both sides of the argument, for confusion sake.
　
I don't think anybody knows or fully grasps the reality of what actually happened that day.

Is there stuff we, the public still don't know? Yeah, probably. Is the stuff we don't know that there was some big inside job conspiracy? Not a chance. Over a decade later and not one shred of evidence to support that quackery.
　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

You have a situation here that needed to be immediately dealt with. The public demanded answers, immediate action, and a show of confidence from a capable authority to provide the assurance of stability/control or at least the impression of it at all costs.

And?

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

The government has lied to the people on more than a few occasions, anyone who doesn’t believe that is a ding bat for sure, and when the urgency was a lot less critical than on this instance too.

Has the government lied? Absolutely. Does it always tell the whole truth? Rarely. Does it usually come out anyway? Yes.
　　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

It simply looks on the surface that too many pieces of the puzzle was forced into place out of convenience with little to no concern for the actual truth or the reality of the situation.

Once again we have opinion as justification for paranoid delusions. Can you present us with a unified theory where all the pieces of the puzzle fit better? If you can, you're the very first to accomplish this task.
　　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Was it an inside job?? Couldn't tell you.

I can. The FACTS show it was not. Now, if you can present some real, hard evidence that it was an inside job, by all means present it. Opinion is not evidence.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Is it possible that some people within the government know a lot more than they are letting on, or willing to discuss and doing their very best not to allow that information to become public knowledge? You better bet your arse they are!!

That possibility exists. That doesn't make it an inside job. And without evidence to support that claim, it is nothing but a false accusation.　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

That is where all this conspiracy "theory" nonsense comes from.

No, the conspiracy theory nonsense comes from those who are unwilling or unable to look at the evidence while being all too willing to substitute opinion for the evidence.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

They made it too easy to be misconstrued/suspicious, and most likely for reasons we the people simply are not privy too, for the protection of a few or maybe even for our own good as a whole.

Who is "they"? Once again we have an accusation with no evidence to back it up and all based on opinions, not evidence. Your own paranoia is NOT evidence.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

But in any case, this has been allowed to snowball, and I believe it was allowed to become that way for a specific reason.

Your opinion and you're welcome to it.
　　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Arguing about it doesn't seem to be helping anything, just creates more suspicion and ill will towards one another.

So says the guy who then attacks me personally in the next sentence. Maybe you should look up hypocrite in the dictionary.
　　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Who are you Pt911 that you spend so much of your time debunking the debunkers? 46 years old? Don't you have a job? A life out side the PF? Or is this your job??

Bah. Debunking you truthers is easy. Lies stacked on top of lies stacked on top of paranoid delusions isn't hard to bust. Takes hardly any time at all. And yes, I am typing this from work. Unlike most truthers I've met, I hold down a nice job and a position with enough clout where I can spend some time making truthers look like idiots. Lately they do it without any assistance from me at all, but it is fun watching them self destruct.

So why do I do it? Two reasons. The truth and because it is wrong.

The truth is real. The truth is immutable. The truth has value. When you allow someone to trash the truth to pursue an agenda, that is wrong. I don't care if it is politics, truthers, or someone in my own family. I am going to stand up for the truth and expose those who lie. You may consider it a weakness to let truth come before agenda, but I consider it a strength.

Truthers are also doing something that, to me, is very wrong, vile and disgusting. They are using the deaths of 3,000 Americans to push an anti government / anti Israeli / anti <insert favorite boogieman here> agenda. They do this by pretending opinion is evidence and that their own personal opinions somehow become reality.

So yeah. That's worth a little bit of my time. You may not agree, and it looks like you are more than a little butthurt over my trashing of the truthers. Know what? I don't care. You want to take pot shots at me? Again, I don't care. You want to lie about what happened on 9/11? Fine. Bring it.

Does that answer your questions enough?

I asked questions, there was no attack, funny that you say it was?? Just curious why you spend so much time down here in the basement.
　
All I will say to the rest of your comments is at least you admit the government lies and does it a lot. That earns you gold star. But as far as the evidence, since we cannot be sure that we have all the sufficient evidence it makes absolutely no sense to declare anything. One piece of key evidence is all it takes to turn the entire official story on end. Evidence that was either tampered with or destroyed could easily create a false perception of some or all evidence that has presented so far.
　
If you believe all the evidence has been presented truthfully and analyzed sufficiently, without prejudice or malice/bias/ulterior motives, you are in a very small minority.
　
Now i already said I don't know enough to make an absolute, informed determination of all the facts because i am not sure all the facts have been presented. It that encourages you to criticize, categorize, and call me names, that's not my problem my friend.
　
All this does is from my point of view is raise more questions. If that’s wrong then I’m wrong. I'm just a hung juror on this topic.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

I asked questions, there was no attack, funny that you say it was?? Just curious why you spend so much time down here in the basement.

Yeah right. No attack? Dream on. When you question if someone has a life or a job etc., that is an attack. Nice of you to expose your dishonesty for everyone to see though.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

All I will say to the rest of your comments is at least you admit the government lies and does it a lot. That earns you gold star. But as far as the evidence, since we cannot be sure that we have all the sufficient evidence it makes absolutely no sense to declare anything. One piece of key evidence is all it takes to turn the entire official story on end. Evidence that was either tampered with or destroyed could easily create a false perception of some or all evidence that has presented so far.

Yet you have NOTHING. Not one SHRED of evidence to back this up. Ten + years later and not one person has come forward and claimed they were part of the conspiracy. Meanwhile, all the evidence present backs up the investigation. PRETENDING there is more evidence that debunks the government story is just that. PRETENDING.
　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

If you believe all the evidence has been presented truthfully and analyzed sufficiently, without prejudice or malice/bias/ulterior motives, you are in a very small minority.

Do you honestly think you need every little scrap of evidence gone over to the nth degree and by completely unbias people? That is even more delusional than most! Evidence speaks for itself. Can you find one shred of evidence of an inside job that isn't based on opinion? Nobody else can either. ALL the evidence points to Al Qaeda. If you have different evidence, present it. Otherwise you're just babbling nonsense.
　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Now i already said I don't know enough to make an absolute, informed determination of all the facts because i am not sure all the facts have been presented. It that encourages you to criticize, categorize, and call me names, that's not my problem my friend.

Who asked you to do that to all the facts? Only one is important. Who did it. Was it Al Qaeda or the government? And where have I called you names? Did I call you (*)(*)(*)(*)head? (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)? At most you can claim I called you a truther. That is what you are. Someone who questions 9/11 by ignoring the evidence and pretending some other evidence is out there.
　

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

All this does is from my point of view is raise more questions. If that’s wrong then I’m wrong. I'm just a hung juror on this topic.

That is by your own choosing, not due to lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary.

Yeah right. No attack? Dream on. When you question if someone has a life or a job etc., that is an attack. Nice of you to expose your dishonesty for everyone to see though.

Sorry i stressed you so. Maybe someday when you calm down we can actually communicate as adults without all the extra drama. Have fun in the basement.


Every body isn't out to get you. I was just curious if you were doing this as a personal issue or if somebody paid you to be here. You answered the question. Thanks.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked

Sorry i stressed you so. Maybe someday when you calm down we can actually communicate as adults without all the extra drama. Have fun in the basement.


Every body isn't out to get you. I was just curious if you were doing this as a personal issue or if somebody paid you to be here. You answered the question. Thanks.

Wow. What a hypocritical, sanctimonious response. Not surprising given the source.

Get help. I'm worried about you.