Intelligent Design:Is it an intelligent conspiracy?

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #1 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 09:40 AM

Intelligent Design:Is it an intelligent conspiracy or an unintelligent mish-mash of deceit, deception and delusion?

Quote:

Ben Stein’s Blunder
In a new documentary film — Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed — the actor, game show host and financial columnist Ben Stein falls for the pseudoscience of Intelligent Design

by Michael Shermer

In 1974 I matriculated at Pepperdine University as a born-again Christian who rejected Darwinism and evolutionary theory, not because I knew anything about it (I didn’t) but because I thought that in order to believe in God and accept the Bible as true that you had to be a creationist. What I knew about evolution came primarily from creationist literature, so when I finally took a course in evolutionary theory in graduate school I realized that I had been hoodwinked. What I discovered is a massive amount of evidence from multiple sciences — geology, paleontology, biogeography, zoology, botany, comparative anatomy, molecular biology, genetics and embryology — demonstrating that evolution happened.

It was with some irony for me, then, that I saw Ben Stein’s anti-evolution documentary film, Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, opens with the actor, game show host and speech writer for Richard Nixon addressing a packed audience of adoring students at Pepperdine University, apparently falling for the same trap I did.

Actually they didn’t. The biology professors at Pepperdine assure me that their mostly Christian students fully accept the theory of evolution. So who were these people embracing Stein’s screed against science? Extras. According to Lee Kats, Associate Provost for Research and Chair of Natural Science at Pepperdine, “the production company paid for the use of the facility just as all other companies do that film on our campus” but that “the company was nervous that they would not have enough people in the audience so they brought in extras. Members of the audience had to sign in and the staff member reports that no more than two to three Pepperdine students were in attendance. Mr. Stein’s lecture on that topic was not an event sponsored by the university.” And this is one of the least dishonest parts of the film.

At the Crossroads of Conspiracy

Ben Stein came to my office to interview me about what I was told was a film about “the intersection of science and religion” called Crossroads (yet another deception). I knew something was afoot with his first question to me was on whether or not I think someone should be fired for expressing..

what always gets me is the way self-described moralistic Christians willingly lie and deceive in order to sell the truth as they imagine it.

lol

amh73 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:33 AM

Christianity and Science are not enemies. Remember that ID and Evolution are both theories. Scientifically, we can't accept either as proven facts. It takes faith to believe in either one. Therefore, if ID is a religion, so is Evolution.

StarryStarrySkies · #3 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amh73

Christianity and Science are not enemies. Remember that ID and Evolution are both theories. Scientifically, we can't accept either as proven facts. It takes faith to believe in either one. Therefore, if ID is a religion, so is Evolution.

There is overwhelming observational support for Evolution. Intelligent Design is a world view meant to ascribe meaning behind what we have already observed. ID is philosophy. Evolution is science.

amh73 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies

There is overwhelming observational support for Evolution. Intelligent Design is a world view meant to ascribe meaning behind what we have already observed. ID is philosophy. Evolution is science.

ID is just as much science. Has it been disproven? Has Evolution been proven? No and No. Both are theories. Both are also philosophies. Neither are proven science, but require scientific testing.

fifthofnovember · #5 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amh73

Christianity and Science are not enemies. Remember that ID and Evolution are both theories. Scientifically, we can't accept either as proven facts. It takes faith to believe in either one. Therefore, if ID is a religion, so is Evolution.

Technically, ID and Evolution aren't even "competing" theories. Evolution is a theory about how life developed on Earth from non-life (or at least from comet-born microbes). ID is larger, addressing the origin of all. Even the big bang theory doesn't go this far, because it only describes what happened AFTER the creation of the universe. ID looks for the Prime Mover, or "First Source".

StarryStarrySkies · #6 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amh73

ID is just as much science. Has it been disproven? Has Evolution been proven? No and No. Both are theories. Both are also philosophies. Neither are proven science, but require scientific testing.

Evolution has undergone scientific testing whereas ID has not. There is no science in ID. It is meant to apply a 'why' to a 'what'. Science identifies and understands the 'what'. Philosophy deals with the 'why'. By that same logic, gravity is just a theory but everything falls to the Earth, does it not?

amh73 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:46 AM

Scientists are free to research Evolution, but lose their jobs for researching ID. Why is this? What are people afraid of? If you are certain that E is true and ID isn't, what harm does it do? I think E is a waste of time, but I have no fear of people researching and testing it.

fifthofnovember · #8 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies

Evolution has undergone scientific testing whereas ID has not. There is no science in ID. It is meant to apply a 'why' to a 'what'. Science identifies and understands the 'what'. Philosophy deals with the 'why'. By that same logic, gravity is just a theory but everything falls to the Earth, does it not?

Is it then mere philosophy to ask why everything falls to the Earth? Or will the question of 'why' tend to lead us to further scientific discovery in that area?

StarryStarrySkies · #9 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amh73

Scientists are free to research Evolution, but lose their jobs for researching ID. Why is this? What are people afraid of? If you are certain that E is true and ID isn't, what harm does it do? I think E is a waste of time, but I have no fear of people researching and testing it.

If you are referring to those mentioned in the documentary Expelled, you might want to do your own research about the facts proposed. That documentary is flawed in so many more ways than one, and I'm not saying this just because I believe whole-heartedly in Evolution. For instance, there was one woman who said she was fired after teaching ID. She was not tenured; she was, in fact, hired temporarily for a semester or two and was not asked to return. That isn't 'fired'. There was another man working for a museum or something that fired him. He was a volunteer who, it turns out, had not showed up for months. This is all off the top of my head but I promise that if you research these people you will find that you were dealt misinformation.
I'm not telling you not to believe in ID. Personally, I'm Areligious but I think religion is a beautiful part of life. I'm just arguing the scientific validity of it.

amh73 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies

If you are referring to those mentioned in the documentary Expelled, you might want to do your own research about the facts proposed. That documentary is flawed in so many more ways than one, and I'm not saying this just because I believe whole-heartedly in Evolution. For instance, there was one woman who said she was fired after teaching ID. She was not tenured; she was, in fact, hired temporarily for a semester or two and was not asked to return. That isn't 'fired'. There was another man working for a museum or something that fired him. He was a volunteer who, it turns out, had not showed up for months. This is all off the top of my head but I promise that if you research these people you will find that you were dealt misinformation.
I'm not telling you not to believe in ID. Personally, I'm Areligious but I think religion is a beautiful part of life. I'm just arguing the scientific validity of it.

I have done my research. This is an area of greaat interest to me. I have read Darwin and the Bible. I have read scientific papers arguing both ways as well as others. Let me ask you a question though. Can a teacher teach ID in schools? (NO!!!!) Can they teach Evolution? (YES!!! They have to!!) How fair is that?

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