Plano rep fights ban on torture
Sam Johnson, an ex-POW, says McCain measure risky for U.S.



09:17 PM CST on Tuesday, December 6, 2005
By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News


WASHINGTON – With the moral authority of a former prisoner of war, Sen. John McCain is pushing to ban torture. Now, one of his former cellmates in the Hanoi Hilton, Rep. Sam Johnson of Plano – whose mangled hand gives testament to the horrors he endured after being shot down in Vietnam – is working to block the measure.

Mr. Johnson has circulated a letter to colleagues arguing that the McCain proposal, which sailed through the Senate, 90-9, would needlessly hamper counter-terrorism efforts – a stance that has surprised human-rights advocates.

"......."I feel very strongly about this because I know what torture is. Torture is already against the law, and John's proposal doesn't make it any more illegal," said Mr. Johnson, who spent seven years as a POW and left the service with two Silver Stars, a Distinguished Flying Cross, two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star.

He said federal law already bans torture, and the proposed language – which also rules out cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment of foreign prisoners – would give enemy fighters tips for withstanding interrogation.

"I'm afraid John's proposal will drastically diminish our ability to gather intelligence," he said. "

McCain's bill "would prohibit torture of suspected terrorists and limit interrogations to techniques set out in the Army Field Manual. It would apply to prisoners in U.S. custody, regardless of whether they are American or held on U.S. soil. "

John McCain's proposals are risky to the United States military. It clearly would place us at a disadvantage and the terrorists at an advantage. These are both Republicans; both former POW'S; and both were tortured themselves. Sam Johnson was a POW 2 years longer than McCain and received TWO Silver Stars, A Distinguished Flying Cross, a Bronze Star, and 2 Purple Hearts. He has every bit as much "moral authority" to speak on this issue as John McCain does. They have opposing views on the need for this bill of McCain's.

IMHO, Sam Johnson is right.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....121ccc86.html

As my wise husband just said, "This wouldn't even be a subject of discussion if a Democrat president were in power." Smart man....that hubby of mine!

__________________
“I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” — Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007

Not to question your husband's wisdom, but why would there be no discussion if a Crat was in office? Are you suggesting that Crats would just get rid of torture outright or that those against torture would be okay with it if it were administered by Democrats?
And why are you so against illegalizing torture clearly if you are so confident that we do not do it anyway?
McCain votes on what he thinks is right regardless of party BS. That's why I like the guy. The fact that he realizes how counterproductive, immoral, and futile torure is only makes me like him more.

BINGO to the "those against torture would be okay with it if it were being administered by Democrats." It wouldn't even be mentioned. This is all an effort by libs to make it look like this administration has treated prisoners differently than other administrations. And John McCain.....in his effort to move left.....has accomodated them.


Because then we'll get into definitions and what means what. McCain wants to limit to ONLY what is listed in the Army Manual handbook. Can't you just see the CIA and the military referring to a book to see if they can legally do something??? I want to leave it to the experts in the field. Who gives a flying fig if some terrorist suspect is humiliated??? We're talking about life and death here for millions of innocent people!!


He'd be totally different as president. He'll do what's best for the country.....not what will satisfy those of you on the left.

And besides.....as my thread proves, this is NOT a "party" issue. Former POW and Congressman Sam Johnson....also a Republican......feels strongly just the opposite. He feels it will only hurt the U.S. military. And many of us agree with him.

__________________
“I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” — Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007

That makes two of us. Ditto for Lieberman. It's nice to see a sheep wander from the herd on occasion.

__________________
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.

If Demo candidate was Joe Lieberman ans GOP candidate was McCain, and demos voted for McCain and Repubs voted for Lieberman,

Even when those sheep are wandering in order to attract votes? Sam Johnson's not running for president: but John McCain is. You tell me which one might be wandering for votes.

__________________
“I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” — Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007

giving his actual position on the issue? And that it just might differ from the daily fax? That votes are not really a part of it at all? If I understand right, you don't believe that someone who was held in captivity and tortured would actually be against torture? Wow.

__________________
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.

To use one of your favorite lines JP, perhaps I am not as cynical as you.
This isn't the only issue where McCain has stepped out of the party line. And why would he wish to appeal to "those of [us] on the far left" rather than mainstream America (though I think mainstream America agrees with McCain on this issue). McCain stands for his principles. Sometimes I think you get party line and principles mixed up.

So....then per YOU, if McCain is doing something that YOU agree with he's standing up for his principles....but if he did something YOU didn't agree with he might be following the party line???

Principles or not....IMHO, this is not the first time John McCain has been dead wrong on an issue. Campaign Finance was the first one that comes to mind. While his intentions might have been good......the results were horrible. All it did was take accountability out of campaign financing and place it in the hands of the 503c's and organizations that have no accountability. His CFR bill that was passed actually takes away some of the average American's constitutional rights, IMO. So now, 60 days before an election I can't voice MY opinion....but George Soros can!!! Thanks to John McCain.

Besides....how many times do I have to point out to you, this issue on torture is not a party line issue. (Neither was CFR, for that matter) Here's two former POW's, medal recipients, elected officials....BOTH REPUBLICANS....with opposing views.

__________________
“I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” — Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007

Where are you getting that? No, you don't understand me right. Obviously, you didn't read what I posted.

To recap: I agree with former POW....and someone who was also tortured.....that we shouldn't tie our military's hands with more unneeded rules. "Torture is already against the law and John's proposal doesn't make it any more illegal."

Johnson said, "I'm afraid John's proposal will drastically diminish our ability to gather intelligence." And I think he's right on that point. He said.....
"federal law already bans torture, and the proposed language---which also rules out cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment of foreign prisoners--would give enemy fighters tips for withstanding interrogations."

Do you really want to assist enemy fighters to withstand interrogations?

__________________
“I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” — Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007