This is the kind of people we are up against folks. This is not about Israel versus Palestine.....or Christians versus Muslims. This is about good versus evil. This is about civilized people versus uncivilized people. And we must all stick together to fight it.




Italy tape: 'Joy' over beheading

Sunday, December 11, 2005; Posted: 5:41 p.m. EST (22:41 GMT)

MILAN, Italy (AP) -- Italian police were listening as the man identified as an Egyptian radical shouted with joy while watching a video of the beheading of American Nicholas Berg by his al Qaeda captors.

"Come nearer, watch closely, this is the politics you have to follow, the politics of the sword," he advised another man as Berg's screams rang out.

"Go to hell, enemy of God, kill him, kill him, cut it well, cut off his head," he said.

Authorities say the statements recorded from phone taps and microphones show that Rabei Osman Sayed Ahmed, a 34-year-old Egyptian facing trial in Milan next month on terrorism charges, preached a radical form of Islam and the need to carry out holy war against Western elements.

The trial is considered one of Europe's major terrorist prosecutions in recent years. Ahmed is not only accused of terrorist crimes in Italy and of having links to cells across Europe, but he also is considered one of the masterminds of the March 11, 2004, train bombings in Madrid that killed 191 people and wounded more than 1,600."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

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"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama said mockingly of the New York senator. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."

It is horrible stories like this that make me realize that we can't set an absolute timetable for withdrawal until the Iraqi people are able to defend themselves against such inhuman acts.

Each side tends to see their enemies as sub-human. By doing so, it allows one's conscience to hibernate.

The pull out of Iraq is not connected to an EGYPTIAN living in ITALY!

The rederic by a fundamentalist is dangerous, no matter where. However, I saw some of the briefings from Desert Storm and Shield, whatever the ops in Afghanistan was called and Iraqi freedom and people were clapping and cheering when the bombs hit intended targets killing people (not in the press corps but being surrounded by normal, educated Americans. How is this different? One just cheers a single murder, another several? Because it was the "bad" Iraqi it was all right?

What is the sentence by 1 American (one of my former co-worker) going to say about America? "We need to take a few nukes and turn Iraq and Afghanistan into solid glass. That would stop them!"

Intollerance is just as dangerous and if one sits in a glass house, one ought not throw stones!

PERSONALLY I AM NOT SO SURE WE ARE FAR BEHIND THESE PEOPLE AS FAR AS BEING RUTHLESS AND INHUMANE -- BUT DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW...
June 11, 2004
The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos

More Photos Surface (updated June 11) (Warning: Graphic Photos Below)

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

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"Who can this be? For He commands even the winds and the waves, and they obey Him." Luke 8:25

"We" didn't commit the atrocities at Abu Ghraib, a group of rogue soldiers, rightfully criminals, committed them. Our current policy on interrogation needs improvement, but our government is not supporting or condoning anything like Abu Ghraib.

I posted a thread a few weeks back, based on a book I'd read on Middle Eastern culture. The book's primary focus was identifying, in general terms, the basis on which cultures exist. The author identified western culture as one rooted primarily in "guilt." By guilt, he means we judge events based on a system of right and wrong. The author identifies shame as the basis of Middle East culture. Honor and shame characterize the actions of most living in the Middle East. The words, "right and wrong" have very little meaning. This is why a member of a family who, for example, marries outside the family's faith, brings horrible shame upon the family. The only way for the family to regain their honor is by murdering the child. Murdering the child is not viewed as being right or wrong--it is viewed only from the perspective of shame and honor.

This seems to be the viewpoint of the man who delighted in seeing the American beheaded. It is his way of seeing revenge taken against those he believes have dishonored him. It is not an issue of right and wrong, it is an issue of having his honor restored back to him.

This book was very eye opening to me, and helped me understand somewhat better that which seems so beyond our capacity of understanding. Most importantly, it helps me better understand how we need to better incorporate our Middle Eastern foreign policy around a system of shame and honor, rather than right and wrong. It's not that we are "wrong" in what we're doing. But it's probably true we are communicating our message to the Middle East in a language they don't understand.

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"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

Blah blah blah. These atrocities which the American military inflicted on their prisoners was done in full view of several others, even had military papparazi taking photos for "posterity" . But I will grant you this much -- The percentage of these so-called rogue soldiers in probably in line with the number of islamic insurgents, compared to "regular" islamic militants. Just people protecting their homeland and way of life.

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"Who can this be? For He commands even the winds and the waves, and they obey Him." Luke 8:25

Plus, I doubt all those pictures are authentic. The "anti-war" groups are not above embellishing.

In the few cases that are authentic......the people who did it were put on trial. And guess what???? I didn't see one beheading, did you?

How anyone can compare that is beyond me. If I was going to be captured in war time and I had the choice....I know which side I'd want to be captured by. And I'm betting everyone on this political board would make the exact same choice.

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"What exactly is this foreign policy experience?" Obama said mockingly of the New York senator. "Was she negotiating treaties? Was she handling crises? The answer is no."

When you are faced with the truth, you simply deny it. These people who were brought up on charges, because of the pics, are being charged simply because of the pics. You can bank there were plenty more where they come from, who didn't have the stupidity to photograph it. You say which side you would rather be captured by. If my weak, third world country was invaded by a large superpower, then I would be forced to use extreme brutality in order to make a stand. Also, beheading is an accepted practice of islamic custom. Who the hell are you to say your customs are better? Come down off your high horse, you're nobody at the end of the day.

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"Who can this be? For He commands even the winds and the waves, and they obey Him." Luke 8:25