No one said "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" The "wartime" powers given to him were given to him freely and readily. You're over reacting yet again. This is the whole reason behind my last post. (By the way are you chicken little or henny penny, I can't remember?)
You voted for a congressman who did just that. Perhaps you should rethink your vote next time. But of course no one gave President Bush unlimited powers. You're over reacting again. (I see a theme developing here.)
You ever read history books? History didn't start with George Bush being President. Go back and check out all the times the Government stepped in and broadened their power. Check out Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Bush I, geeze HD do you need me to spoon feed it to you?
You are. America is still great. You may not think so, but hey... you seem to have a penchant for over reacting.
No powers in this government are unchecked. If this were true, then why doesn't Bush abolish congress and send the Supreme Court home? He can't. Why would he want to? You've been drinking too much of the liberal cool aid HD.

It's just a pine cone that fell on your head Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling... really. You're worried over nothing.

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

Protect? That's an interesting assumption about what the use of torture (or "cruel and inhumane treatment" if you want to get Clintonian about it) does for intelligence-gathering. Is there any evidence to suggest that the iron-glove treatment actually improves intelligence gathering? I've seen several suggestions that the most you get from torture is false confessions and the production of misinformation.

Yes, people of your country have often stepped up to defend the cause of liberty when actions taken by foreign and local enemies of liberty have threatened it. I certainly hope they continue to do so, and I hope they continue to believe that the best defense of liberty is liberty itself. All this talk of how you need to act like a tyrant to your enemies makes me wonder if your country still thinks that tyranny is a bad thing.

This thread has a series of delusional posts and downright fiction, it just proves that there is no logical arguement for the right wing :defense: of torture.

AnnieAngle, no one is saying to take anyone out to ice cream.. if making things up makes you feel better, then don't actually believe they are true. I suggest and many "liberals" agree that we should be fighting "terrorists", You know, like Bin Laden. That includes attacking a country that protected them, Afghanistan and going after the rest of them whereever they are. The only person giving them a break is the Bush administration who blocked attacking the Zarqawi terrorist camp on three occasions.

Rockyreagan, see above. No one is saying feed them scooby snacks. All that is being said is to lead by example and act like a civilized country and not torture our prisoners. BTW, can you name any foreign terrorist attacks "in this country" beside the two WTC attacks. Yes, I added the word foreign here to take out the Oklahoma city bombing.

And unchecked power IS dangerous. When the administration can set up secret prisons and strap a guy naked to the floor and let him freeze to death. And there is no acknowledgement, no discipline (in fact the guy was promoted) then there is a dangerous believe that the US is above the law. COmbine this with an administration that thinks Americans can be held without charges and it is not that large of a step to taking americans off of the street for political purposes and killing them. No we are not there. But if the power to do so exists, then it can happen. I am emphatic that power needs external monitoring or it will be abused. SO the concept of giving power to the government that is outside review is very dangerous. I mean if they are doing nothing wrong, what is so wrong with outside review?

Senaxflatulus, how do you know who I voted for? Am voting for someone does not mean you agree with every stance they take. Andf BTW, America was greater before President Bush disgraced us. The terrorists have acheived their goals with the HELP of George Bush. Terrorists love that America's reputation in the world is worse. Terrorists love that America is no longer trusted. Terrorists love that our position of leadership in human rights is gone. Terrorists are enjoying the hatred of our country resulting from a war based upon lies. George Bush is taking one step back everytime he takes a step forward. There would have been more effective ways to fight terrorism.

And when I said uncheked powers that does not mean literally he has the power to abolish congress. I mean he is declaring himself able to have certain powers that are unchecked. Including the power to take a guy off the street anywhere in the world, fly him to a secret prison, torture and kill him, and have no review of these actions whatsoever.

I am not against fighting terrorists. I just find it amazing that there is even any debate if this country should employ torture.

Oh by all means then. Lets use your found suggestions. I like your idea of gambling with innocent lives. Since you have good intentions and all, if a few thousand innocent Americans die, hey it's the price to pay for being magnanimous, right? At least we were nice.
Come visit my country and see for yourself. Stop wondering.

I'm not condoning torture. However, I don't want to rule it out. As soon as you eliminate it from the minds of your enemy, they have less to worry about when they decide to attack this country.

I don't want to eliminate the notion of us using tactical nukes either. If you decide to rob someone's home, you'll think twice if you realize they own a Rottweiler and several handguns.

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

I agree, there are delusional parts. However, if I eliminate your contributions to the thread, it's very logical.
What is the name of this person who we froze to death? Why hasn't it been publicized and broadcast on the news?
You know, in another thread on this site, damooster was admonishing another user about using scare tactics since logical arguments seemed to fail. It seems to me that you're doing exactly that now. You sound frightened HD. Perhaps you should take a break and relax. I'm worried about you.
Well, I can feel reasonably sure in assuming you DIDN'T vote for Bush. Am I right? I can also assume that since Congress overwhelmingly voted to authorized Bush to use any means necessary to get the job done, it's a safe bet that your congresspersons were part of this vote. If they made it into congress without your vote, then your just a sore loser who whines a lot.
Oh really? So what exactly is al Qaeda's stated goal HD? Those are all just your opinions HD. It appears as though you have the same mind-set of the terrorists too. You claim to know what they think. I think they're misguided, but that's MY opinion. I think that if more people believed the way you did, George Bush wouldn't have been re-elected. So, it appears you're the one who is in the minority here.
Two things I have to say to you here:
1) Say what you mean. Be clearer when you post. Absolute power is a specific term. Unchecked powers also mean specifically "NOT" checked. We can't be mind readers. If you want to be taken seriously, then be more responsible with your wording.
2) We killed people while torturing them? That's news to me. Perhaps you could supply us with a link to your inside information. I sure would appreciate that.
I find it amazing that you are that out of touch with the fellow citizens of your country.

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

How do you know this? Have you personally visited every prison the US has set up all over the world to detain terrorist suspects?

Wow! Why don't you start a religion?

Bottom line- terrorists attack the US because of hatred against our nation. This hatred comes from our foreign policy. Torture may protect us in the short term, or it may not (it often creates false information. Torture victims will often say anything the torturers want to hear to end the pain). Torture will create more hatred of the US, and in the long run, cause more terrorist attacks.

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LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!

Is it any wonder that Saddam is claiming that he is being tortured? He's hoping the left will come running to his aid. If throwing a used tampon on a prisoner or forcing them to listen to loud rock music will save thousands of lives, then I have no problem with it. This is not torture, not in the sense that many would like everyone to believe.

Also, without wearing a uniform, a person acting militarily against us can be shot to death on the spot, no questions asked per the Geneva convention.

Al Qaeda captives are ordered to claim torture when they are captured. It's right in their training manual. It's nice to see that Saddam if following true to form.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...1655-7932r.htm

The lib's were worried about what the world thought about the war, but now they know that all of the major countries that opposed the war were getting money from the oil for food scandle. Lib's are easy, the enemy knows this, that's why they try to play them for suckers.

The most interesting fact that it usually never discussed about this whole Abu Ghraib/Guantanamo Bay prison camp issue was that the few instances that a possible problem did exist, people were already charged and waiting to be tried, while others were still under investigation. This story broke in the liberal press to make it appear as if they uncovered something, when the truth is that they only informed the enemy and inflaimed an already sensitive area to undermine the war. That's all they ever wanted to do.

Peace

Kindly cite one example where the US sanctioned the use of torture. Even the Amnesty report says there is no evidence of this taking place. If you are unable to cite specific examples of torture sanctioned by the US, then the presumption is it does not exist. Torture is already prohibited by the US Military Code. Bleeding hearts simply refuse to accept the fact that torture does not take place by the US. I'm certain they will believe Saddam's claims that he is being tortured.

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"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

Is why does Dick Cheney want the CIA exempt?

If playing rock music 24/7 would be considered torture, I could. Other than that, the few documented and charged offences were unique abuses that were already being dealt with and never sanctioned by the US.

Also keep in mind that McCain has always been known as a political opportunist.