I'm not making any claims that the US is torturing suspects, but one really can't make the claim they we absolutely aren't if one hasn't seen the situation first hand in the terrorist prisons. There can be all kinds of things going on in them that we simply aren't told about. I guess by your logic if we can't see it or don't hear about it, it must not be there.

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LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!

Secret Prisons!..instant response-OMG they must be torturing people there..which became- they are torturing people there..the proof? NOTHING.

By your guys logic simply saying it over and over is enough...no its not either prove it or come up with a new canned line.









What Saddam and his legal counsel are doing is simple and clear.

They are making noises so that the focus of everyones attention is on them and their antics and not the crimes he is being charged for.

The far left/qnti-war crowd is grasping onto it as hard as possible because they have been intentionally ignoring Saddam and his crimes from the beginning and want nothing more then to keep those stories swept under a carpet of noise.


Its like Nuremburg and focusing on some antics of say Hermann Goering...
While ignoring Rudolf Hoess describe how he murdered millions.

The stories of torture are so rampant, wide spread, and systemic that it's no longer a matter of If, it's more a matter of how much is still being covered up.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/in...gewanted=print

In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals.

. At the interrogators' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...re/interviews/

Sgt. Roger Brokaw (Ret.) came to Iraq as an interrogator in the late spring of 2003. He worked at Abu Ghraib for six months and estimates that only about 2 percent of the people he talked to were dangerous or insurgents. "The police were bringing people in because they had grudges against somebody or didn't like somebody. … So they'd tell us, 'You know, this guy's a terrorist,'" he says. According to Brokaw, the attitude among Americans in Iraq was that everyone they saw was a terrorist. "So when they went into interrogate these people, they already had this mindset," he explains. He says he saw detainees arrive at Abu Ghraib looking like they'd been beaten up: "I saw black eyes and fat lips, and some of them had to be treated for different bad abrasions on legs and arms, cuts."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...re/interviews/

Spc. Tony Lagouranis (Ret.) was a U.S. Army interrogator from 2001 to 2005, and served a tour of duty in Iraq from January 2004 to January 2005. He was first stationed at Abu Ghraib; in the spring he joined a special intelligence gathering task force that moved among detention facilities around the country. Here, he talks about how he found a "culture of abuse" permeating interrogations throughout Iraq. "The worst stuff I saw was from the detaining units who would torture people in their homes," he tells FRONTLINE. "… They would smash people's feet with the back of an axe-head. They would break bones, ribs, you know. That was serious stuff.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201941.html

Two days before, a secret CIA-sponsored group of Iraqi paramilitaries, working with Army interrogators, had beaten Mowhoush nearly senseless, using fists, a club and a rubber hose, according to classified documents.
The sleeping-bag interrogation and beatings were taking place in Qaim about the same time that soldiers at Abu Ghraib, outside Baghdad, were using dogs to intimidate detainees, putting women's underwear on their heads, forcing them to strip in front of female soldiers and attaching at least one to a leash.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/...use+of+Afghans

The dead soldier, identified as Jamal Naseer, a member of the Afghan Army III Corps, was severely beaten over a span of at least two weeks, according to a report prepared for the Afghan attorney general. A witness described his battered corpse as being "green and black" with bruises.
Some of the Afghan soldiers were beaten to the point that they could not walk or sit, Afghan doctors and other witnesses said.

, September 24, 2005 by the Inter Press Service
According to their testimony, featured in a new report by Human Rights Watch (HRW), beatings and other forms of torture were often either ordered or approved by superior officers and took place on virtually a daily basis. The soldiers, all of whom had also been deployed to Afghanistan before coming to Iraq, testified that the same techniques were used in both countries.

The beatings were so severe that they resulted in broken bones "every other week" at Forward Operating Base (FOB) Mercury, where detainees would ordinarily be held for three or four days before being transferred to Abu Ghraib. In one case, an Army cook broke the leg of a detainee with a metal baseball bat, according to one of the sergeants quoted in the report, entitled "Leadership Failure".



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6739124

CIA loses bid to keep records secret
Agency says abuse investigation not yet completed

Another e-mail, dated December 2003, describes an incident in which Defense Department interrogators at Guantánamo Bay impersonated FBI agents while using "torture techniques" against a detainee.
The June 2004 "Urgent Report" addressed to the FBI Director is heavily redacted. The legible portions of the document appear to describe an account given to the FBI’s Sacramento Field Office by an FBI agent who had "observed numerous physical abuse incidents of Iraqi civilian detainees," including "strangulation, beatings, [and] placement of lit cigarettes into the detainees ear openings." The document states that "[redacted] was providing this account to the FBI based on his knowledge that [redacted] were engaged in a cover-up of these abuses."

Included:
An FBI email regarding DOD personnel impersonating FBI officials during interrogations. The e-mail refers to a "ruse" and notes that "all of those [techniques] used in these scenarios" were approved by the Deputy Secretary of Defense. (Jan. 21, 2004)

It may not be such a bad idea that.. keeping Saddam's crimes under wraps. The USA did afterall actively support his regime for a couple of decades when millions of iraqis and iranians were killed. Eventually Saddam will start naming names within the US govt and then the real fun begins.
I can just imagine joe-arab's reactions when he finds this out.. "jihad on the western bipolar pig dogs die!!"

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts

Whatever role the US may or may not have played in supporting Saddam in some form at some time pales into utter insignifiance in the face of the horror HE is responsible for.

Lets gloss over the 1,500 bodies in the pit and talk about how Saddam said hello to Rumsfeld one day in 1984!

..


Exactly btw what the far left/anti-war crowd has been doing since the start.."what mass graves?.. what genocide?".."Rumsfeld went there!!!..OIL!!.. Imerialism!1!"..anything and eveyrthing but the nasty stuff.


Besides that... focusing on the US as the only country in the world is stupid.

What gambling? What threat is there to any human life? Please provide evidence of the alleged efficacy of these unethical practices. I don't buy that it's an effective interrogation technique. Useful for extracting confessions from your enemies, that I can see, but not for getting confessions that are actually true.

The problem is that at the time, we did nothing about it. Then 10 -15 years later, we decide to drudge up crimes to prior to the first Gulf war to start a second. This is just anotehr indictment of the Republican leadership that they supported these acts by selling raw materials, helicopters, etc. Then 10 or more years later claim they are outraged.

I just want to know why you were not outraged 10 years ago? Why did the republicans not call for the removal of Saddam during the first Gulf war?

By your logic we better arm to the teeth and invade every single nation on earth now becasue god forbid we sell them a helicoptor and 20 years they kill a million people with it..Then it wil be the US fault!


Stupid..moronic..childish..

This is only the first of numerous charges brought by Iraq against Saddam. The ones your great Clinton and corrupt UN allowed to occur will be coming up soon enough.

Then you can remindus why listenign to the UN and doign nothing about Saddam was ok with you..since

"He was contained and only killing his own people"

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

According to Barney, the US does not use torture. Now I'm confused.

__________________
LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!