Please site a few examples with links, showing us how many lives have been saved by torture techniques since 9/11. Obviously you must have this information since you're fighting so hard to preserve torture as something to hold in reserve.

All I can say is that the right wing is acting disgraceful. I guess it is completely OK for our troops to be subjected to these same treatment then and we should have no complaint.

So if a foreign country takes US troops and strip them naked and chain them to a cold floor until they get hypothermia is not an issue with you guys.

And FYI, waterboarding IS torture under international law. It is a "mock execution" which is outlawed.

And before some right wing idiot parrots in that at least we aren't beheading them, being better than the scum of the earth is not an accomplishment.

Good point HD. If the U.S. is allowed to torture, does that mean all nations can torture whenever they deem it neccesary, or is it only we who are allowed to Torture? The Right Wingers can't seem to answer the really touph questions on this issue.

__________________
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

I never implied in any way shape or form that we are the only nation guilty of committing torture so you’re assumption is dead wrong. If you don’t have the guts to answer my question that’s fine, but pretending to answer my question by telling me how I seem to act is total evasiveness.

But I’ll give you another chance. Is it your firm belief that all nations have the right to commit torture as they deem fit? And remember they can also define what torture is according to they’re own personal outlook.

You also mention that we should hold on to our option to utilize tactical nukes if needed. Great Idea. I guess that means Iran and Korea also possess the right to have a few tactical nukes handy just in case, or are we the only ones who can keep those around?

So where’s my answer(s)?

It’s amazing how every time you evade my question it blows up in your face.

And you’ve got another problem pal. The administration was demanding actionable intelligence be obtained from prisoners in Gitmo, Afghanistan and Iraq. There is no stated policy by the administration that torture or the supposed aggressive interrogation techniques be held in reserve as an OPTION. That notion exists in your fantasy world. Do you really believe that McCain presented his Bill because only one or two torture sessions had occurred, and only as an option? Again, your fantasy world

Go ahead and spit on the ideals that so many american troops have died for over hundreds of hears... why... Ohhhh the big bad terrorists managed to pull a cheap attack and kill some people. Who is being the big weenie here. I say you are. Suck up the fact that freedom has it's price and one of those prices are maybe your society is more vulnerable to terrorist attack. You are the weak one willing to advocate secret government torture chambers because you are scared. I am the patriot, standing for American principles, even if that means not having government torture chambers "for non americans, who we suspect of being terrorists" (without any legal process)

You do realize that in WWII a captured enemy soldier "in uniform representing a foreign state", say a nazi soldier, very well may be able to tell you plans that would save American lives. But governments agreed that torture could not be used, and I bet you don't even understand why?

Afraid they will think we are the "weaker civilization".... Why the F do I care what a bunch of scumbag killers think. The weaker civilization is that one that lets hatred justify beheadings and torture.

Lots of people have made that same mistake! I'll just add you to the list.

__________________
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.

You almost convinced me until the very end when you talked about "confronting evil" and all that mumbo jumbo. Believe me, I would love to see American win this war, but I don't think it is possible. Not because we don't have the courage, and not because our enemy is stronger than us, but because the whole concept of a "war on terror" is flawed. How can we fight a war to end terrorism, to end violence? War is terrorism; war is violence. We are perpetuating the very thing we are trying to destroy. I know what you will say because I've heard it all before- we are fighting fire with fire. Well that's not exactly true. It would be more accurate to say we are putting out the fire with fire. All this bloodshed will only create more hatred against the US. It is the same with torture. It creates more hatred and ultimately more terrorism.

Believe me, I hope we catch Bin Laden, just like I hope the government catches any criminal who has done harm to its nation, but don't think that doing so will bring an end to terrorism or even win the war. The only war to win a war on terrorism, a war on violence, is to set a new example of how to solve problems without resorting to terrorism or violence. Otherwise, this won't just be our war. It be our children's war, and their children's war...

__________________
WARNING: In the unlikely event of an accidental agreement with any or all points made in the above post, contact a clinical psychologist immediately.

The views expressed in the above post are not necessarily those of Joker and/or any of his affiliates.

"You have found the secret message. Do you have too much time on your hands? ...Let it go."

why do we care so much about a foreigner getting tortured when some in our country cant afford proper health care. Plus, i've never seen an arab country express sorrow for decapitating any of our military personnel or their own people.

...what benefits does it actually bring? It is one of, if not the, worst method for extracting information, in the Middle Ages it had women admitting to witchcraft.

And if someone is willing to kill themselves in order to take some civilians/soldiers with them, then the threat of torture if they are kidnapped wont really scare them will it?

So all it will really do is produce unreliable intelligence and give extremists another recruiting tool. Not to mention being inhumane.

__________________
It's the difference between suicide and slow capitulation... - Jim Morrison