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Old 01-02-2006, 12:11 PM
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Default So you...

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Originally Posted by Ikari";p=&quot View Post
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You loony left wing nut jobs can't name one single person this has effected. I want our government to protect us as does 85% of the rest of America using any and all means necessary.

This is the irony of it; many of you on the left support or sympathize with regimes like Castro's Cuba, or other socialized or dictatorial goverments, where there is no freedom of the press or any privacy whatsoever, and yet you find the NSA trying to capture the communication from those that are trying to destroy our nation, you may get your wish. Keep tying their hands and eventually there will be a disaster of the likes you never bargained for.
I don't care if 99.9999999999999% of America wishes the government to keep us safe by any means necessary. We do not live in a democracy, this is a Republic and the citizens of the free and sovereign states have rights. The government does not have any and all necessary means open to it, it must act by the constraints of the Constitution, and they can not act in a way that threatens or violates the rights of the citizens.

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
...yourself have determine civil rights were violated? I thought you were a believer in our court system. The NYT writes an article and you have all the players tried and convicted. How amazing you are.

You lefty loons are going to lose this one big time, but keep it up, the next elections are coming.
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Old 01-02-2006, 12:28 PM
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Default .

You think that because I critisize Bush, I must be a "lefty loon"? The court system has become rather corrupt, and we are left with a mixing of the branches. We have the President and the Judiciary making and passing laws without Congress. I do, however, believe most firmly in the foundation of this country; of rights, liberty, and freedom. Thus when the government acts out against our rights, I am vocal about it. The transgressions of the current administration against unlawful search and siezures is clear. There must be a real and serious investigation into this matter, the government must know they may not violate our rights for any reason what so ever.
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Old 01-03-2006, 05:26 AM
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You think that because I critisize Bush, I must be a "lefty loon"?
That's about the size of it these days. Rather than actually debate the issues, you get labelled "lefty loon", "pro-terrorist" and the like when you dare to disagree with the political orthodoxy of the current Administration.

Welcome to political correctness, right-wing style.
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Old 01-03-2006, 05:33 AM
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Default Well, all bad ideas tend to find their

way into both parties. PC included. If questioning W makes someone a member of the "loony left", then fine by me. Rather that than a spineless bootlicker I guess.

Before we amend the Constitution I think we need to follow it as is for a while. Just to prove we can.
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Old 01-03-2006, 05:47 AM
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Default I'll call anyone a loon...

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Originally Posted by Zellis";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikari";p=&quot View Post
You think that because I critisize Bush, I must be a "lefty loon"?
That's about the size of it these days. Rather than actually debate the issues, you get labelled "lefty loon", "pro-terrorist" and the like when you dare to disagree with the political orthodoxy of the current Administration.

Welcome to political correctness, right-wing style.
...that makes judgments and convictions before all the evidence has surfaced and that includes the right wing nut jobs.
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Old 01-03-2006, 06:31 AM
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Default Privacy is Tricky

It's pretty implicit that our government shouldn't just have the right to spy on citizens without some substantial specific reason. Where privacy goes from there is anyone's guess. The world the founders lived in was a different world concerning privacy. Communities were closer and people lived in much closer quarters. In the more individualist society of today people have more of their own business and it is difficult to imagine any return to close-knit communities and I'm not sure anyone would actually like to see such a return.
The security posed in these closely-knit communities was however done by the community, not by the government, especially not by the federal government. So even then peoples' lives were private insofar as government was concerned.
There might be cases nowadays where the government may be needed to take care of the security once handled by communities. But it is necessary to ensure that this use of government power is under heavy scrutiny, from the courts and the media. The courts and the media have jobs to do and it is no accident that those jobs are often at odds with the executive branch.
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