We know that any violation of the Constitution is the ultimate slippery slope. We know that terrorists want us to give up our basic rights out of fear. We know that it is inherently immoral for government officials to monitor communications randomly. We also know that Fox News has a definite agenda and that 56% of Americans think that Bush should get a warrant for eavesdropping:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

HardDrivere has said Driver, Does you or does yoou not read Neocon revisionist history ? Thye say that it was only the Demoncrats who supported slavery...... The Repubs liked them "colored folk"; yup they sure did, as long as "they knew their place"..........and we all know that "their place" was where there just ain't none of that "civil rights stuff them Yankees, commuists, and Jews done try to spread among our colored folk". "Our colored folks they were just all fine and happy and dansin and singin and all that before them Yankee agitators come down here and stirred them up".

Yup it was them aaahgitators and Dee mo crats .......

PS AND YOU NECONS can save telling us about that former KKK memeber from West Virginia ....... West Virginia is not even the South.... or did Neocons write a revisionist geography also !!!!!!

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"Oh bury me, then rise ye up,And break your heavy chains, water with the tyrants' blood, The freedom you have gained." Тарáс Григóрович ШевчéнкоT.Shevchenko- Poet of Ukraine

I wonder what percentage of Americans could be considered sheep? Give or take, I'd say about 60%.

As it turns out, I even have some data to support this conclusion.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181462,00.html

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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."

Based on what history?

based on what proof?
Who's morals?
Based on what study does Fox have an agenda?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA[/quote]

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Cheney is the second executive officer to shoot someone in the face and chest. Clinton was the first.

West Virginia is not even the South....

"West" Virginia was a part of the State of Virginia, until it seceded from the state of Virginia after the beginning of the War for Southern Independence. In true style, the Federal Congress recognized their secession and gave it the status of statehood, all the while not recognizing the secession of the sovereign Sates of the South.

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"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

Much like the anit-war thing they don't have nearly the support from the people they imagine so their responses will be vitirol save the whales type nonsense.


You can tell they have nothign becasue it becomes FAUX news..whenever you see FAUX you can dismiss them.

if 60% of the country believes that we can practice genocide it would be ok.

according to JP5s logic--which is that percentages=defeat of natural rights.

don't tread on me fascists. if you don't want terrorists coming after you, don't violate the natural rights of people in other countries and say that the Constitution does not apply to them simply because they aren't American...

http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol48no2/article10.html

In All the Shah's Men, Stephen Kinzer of the New York Times suggests that the explanation may lie next door in Iran, where the CIA carried out its first successful regime-change operation over half a century ago. The target was not an oppressive Soviet puppet but a democratically elected government whose populist ideology and nationalist fervor threatened Western economic and geopolitical interests. The CIA's covert intervention—codenamed TPAJAX—preserved the Shah's power and protected Western control of a hugely lucrative oil infrastructure. It also transformed a turbulent constitutional monarchy into an absolutist kingship and induced a succession of unintended consequences at least as far ahead as the Islamic revolution of 1979—and, Kinzer argues in his breezily written, well-researched popular history, perhaps to today.

British colonialism faced its last stand in 1951 when the Iranian parliament nationalized the sprawling Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) after London refused to modify the firm's exploitative concession. "[b]y a series of insensate actions," the British replied with prideful stubbornness, "the Iranian Government is causing a great enterprise, the proper functioning of which is of immense benefit not only to the United Kingdom and Iran but to the whole free world, to grind to a stop. Unless this is promptly checked, the whole of the free world will be much poorer and weaker, including the deluded Iranian people themselves."2 Of that attitude, Dean Acheson, the secretary of state at the time, later wrote: "Never had so few lost so much so stupidly and so fast."3 But the two sides were talking past each other. The Iranian prime minister, Mohammed Mossadeq, was "a visionary, a utopian, [and] a millenarian" who hated the British, writes Kinzer. "You do not know how crafty they are," Mossadeq told an American envoy sent to broker the impasse. "You do not know how evil they are. You do not know how they sully everything they touch."4...

Kinzer would have been better off making a less sweeping judgment: that TPAJAX got the CIA into the regime-change business for good—similar efforts would soon follow in Guatemala, Indonesia, and Cuba—but that the Agency has had little success at that enterprise, while bringing itself and the United States more political ill will, and breeding more untoward results, than any other of its activities.14 Most of the CIA's acknowledged efforts of this sort have shown that Washington has been more interested in strongman rule in the Middle East and elsewhere than in encouraging democracy. The result is a credibility problem that accompanied American troops into Iraq and continues to plague them as the United States prepares to hand over sovereignty to local authorities. All the Shah's Men helps clarify why, when many Iraqis heard President George Bush concede that "[s]ixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe,"15 they may have reacted with more than a little skepticism.

"if 60% of the country believes that we can practice genocide it would be ok.

according to JP5s logic--which is that percentages=defeat of natural rights.

don't tread on me fascists. if you don't want terrorists coming after you, don't violate the natural rights of people in other countries and say that the Constitution does not apply to them simply because they aren't American..."

[/quote] And if a group of Islamic extremists want to come into your country and murder 3000 of your fellow citizens, it's okay with you???? That's not all they want, you know. They want YOU and I to stop our way of life which they believe is ruining their way of life because we are so influencial. They hate Jews; so they expect us to hate Jews. They want women to stay "in their place," stay covered up. And they believe that you are an infidel and need to be killed. AND your children.

You can sit by and watch it, DOP....but the majority of us WILL NOT. That's not what this country is all about. Never has been.

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

[/quote]

I think it goes without saying that countries that have binding Constitutions are better-run than those without binding Constitutions. Regarding your second question, will you take Tom Ridge's word for it?

"The terrorists wish to make Americans that live in freedom, live in fear..."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/03/terror.threat/

Would you want me to listen in on all of your telephone calls and monitor you on the Internet? Government officials are morally fallible human beings. Most networks are liberal, but Fox News is conservative.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

Be careful with the personal attacks, deathofpolitics. My point has always been that once the Fourth Amendment has been violated (and it has), government monitoring power becomes unlimited. That is a greater danger to the country than terrorism.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)