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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:05 AM
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
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JBLM (Lewis/McChord) is a joint base...Army / Air Force.

I assume this guy was Army.

Dunked in a bucket of water is not waterboarding.
It's dunked in a bucket of water.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HungrySomali View Post
Another casualty in the war on terror. We are creating monsters and bringing them home and setting them lose on their families.
Good God man...there unfortunately are tons of child abuse cases all the time. And there are much more child abuse cases by civilians then by the military:

Quote:
The few studies that have analyzed data from Family Advocacy central registries have reported a lower incidence of abuse overall than have studies of child abuse among the civilian U.S. population. Over a 27-month period from October 1978 to December 1980, James et al.9 found a yearly incidence rate of 250 reports of child abuse in the Army central registry per 100,000 children. They compared this with a national incidence rate of 968 reports per 100,000 children reported by the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect. From 1988 to 1997, McCaroll et al." estimated that there were between 6.59 and 7.71 substantiated cases of child abuse yearly in the Army central registry per 1,000 Army children. From 1987 to 1992, Mollerstrom et al.4 reported annual rates of substantiated cases in Air Force Central Registries ranging from 6.38 to 7.04 per 1,000 Air Force children. Finally, Raiha and Soma' found 7 substantiated cases per 1,000 Army children. They compared this with the almost double rate of 14 per 1,000 reported by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. A nationwide survey of data from state Child Protective Service agencies found an even higher average of 16 cases of child abuse per 1,000 U.S. children.11
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:00 AM
Nydas Nydas is online now
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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
Since you think waterboarding is so wrong (even though tens of thousands of US military have undergone waterboarding), are you prepared to sacrifice thousands/millions of American lives in a terroristic attack for YOUR morality?

The and convoluted rationalization will be forthcoming.
WTF are you talking about? Me, nor any of the other hundreds of soldiers i have worked with/met, have ever been waterboarded. The worst thing that happens to us is going through the gas chamber in basic, and that was just to get us to trust our gas masks.

Yay for you having no idea what you are talking about, and making up things on the spot to try and support your justification for torture.
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nydas View Post
WTF are you talking about? Me, nor any of the other hundreds of soldiers i have worked with/met, have ever been waterboarded. The worst thing that happens to us is going through the gas chamber in basic, and that was just to get us to trust our gas masks.

Yay for you having no idea what you are talking about, and making up things on the spot to try and support your justification for torture.
SERE training involves a version of water-boarding; every aircrew in the USAF
is required to take a SERE / CAC (conduct after capture) course.

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/share...AFI16-1301.pdf

2.3.4.3.2.1. Wartime/Prisoner of War (POW):

2.3.4.3..1.4. Determine various methods of exploitation and their effects on the
prisoner. techniques, and procedures (TTP) in captivity.

2.3.4.3.2.2.2. Identify the primary methods of exploitation.

.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 02-09-2010 at 09:19 AM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Nydas View Post
WTF are you talking about? Me, nor any of the other hundreds of soldiers i have worked with/met, have ever been waterboarded. The worst thing that happens to us is going through the gas chamber in basic, and that was just to get us to trust our gas masks.

Yay for you having no idea what you are talking about, and making up things on the spot to try and support your justification for torture.
Just because you weren't trained, doesn't mean the training doesn't exist:

Waterboarding: A SERE-ing Experience for Tens of Thousands of US Military Personnel

Quote:
...My personal experience with S.E.R.E. training came as a junior pilot flying the F-14A “Tomcat” at NAS Miramar, California. The US Navy S.E.R.E. program requires all Aircrew Members and members of Special Operation Teams (SOF) to undergo both classroom and field experience in these vital techniques. Classroom and field training was accomplished by a cadre of highly trained and disciplined personnel, many of whom had been held as POW’s and tortured by the North Vietnamese.

What actually happens in S.E.R.E. in the field? Classes of 40 or more “students” are put through beach and water (swimming) survival techniques, similar to the TV show “Survivor” but without the rewards challenges. The class is then moved to a remote location to survive and evade prior to entering the US Navy run POW camp. The operation of the evasion complex is based on the trainee being briefed on the enemy position and the location of friendly forces. The object, “to make like a bush”, be patient and deliberate and use all your new taught skills to evade a large contingent of simulated enemy combatants in uniform. They speak like the enemy, act like the enemy, and most importantly train you on how to react to the enemy. While they fire AK-47’s over your head, and search for the ugly “American War Criminals” (thanks Jane), you spend agonizing hours crawling and hiding in an attempt to reach safety. As in real life, few if any make it to safety when behind enemy lines...

S.E.R.E. training is not pleasant, but it is critical to properly prepare our most endangered combat forces for the reality of enemy capture. Was I “tortured” by the US military? No. Was I trained in an effort to protect my life and the lives of other American fighting men? Yes! Freedom is not Free, nor does it come without sacrifice. Every good American understands this basic principle of our country and prays for the young men and women who have sacrificed and are out on the front lines protecting us today.

Now, let’s see Congress: Maybe forty or so students per week, let’s say 100 minimum per month, 1,200 per year for over twenty or thirty years? It could be as many as 40,000 students trained in S.E.R.E. and “tortured” at the direction of, and under the watchful eye of the Congressional Majorities on both sides of the aisle. Be careful that the 40,000 of us who you have “tortured” don’t come after you today with tort claims. I heard it pays about $3 million per claim...
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Last edited by Otter; 02-09-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by highway234 View Post
read the thread. i've already been through this, and all you cons are saying the exact same thing. you've been trained well.

i've already responded to this, but you either don't understand what i'm saying or you're deliberately trotting out a straw man.

keep advertising for torture, cons. see how many more guys like this you bring us.
No, you didn't respond to it. Your logic used fell apart at the seams. I can name dozens of policies that aren't torture that are acceptable to use on an adult and not a child.

Keep feeling sorry for the mastermind of 9/11 while we save our pity for those more worthy. Let's see how many terrorists libs bring us.
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Nydas Nydas is online now
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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
Just because you weren't trained, doesn't mean the training doesn't exist:

Waterboarding: A SERE-ing Experience for Tens of Thousands of US Military Personnel



Google is your friend.
Ya, and a blog saying as many as 40,000 being water boarded, isnt exactly fact.

yes, ever airman might go through SEER, but it would only be level 1 for 90% of them, which would amount to a few class room sessions and maybe some hands on training. The only people that would actually be trained to withstand torture, are high risk of actually being in situations of being captured, which is no where near 40,000.

So again, no where near thousands of soldiers are being water boarded.
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
No, you didn't respond to it. Your logic used fell apart at the seams. I can name dozens of policies that aren't torture that are acceptable to use on an adult and not a child.

Keep feeling sorry for the mastermind of 9/11 while we save our pity for those more worthy. Let's see how many terrorists libs bring us.
Ya, cause no innocent Iraqis have been apprehended for no reason, and subjected to waterboarding.... Nope, its only used on the top leaders who plan the attacks.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Nydas View Post
Ya, and a blog saying as many as 40,000 being water boarded, isnt exactly fact.

yes, ever airman might go through SEER, but it would only be level 1 for 90% of them, which would amount to a few class room sessions and maybe some hands on training. The only people that would actually be trained to withstand torture, are high risk of actually being in situations of being captured, which is no where near 40,000.

So again, no where near thousands of soldiers are being water boarded.
Here's a tip...your opinion is NOT fact. Jeez! Did you even read the article?

Quote:
Maybe forty or so students per week, let’s say 100 minimum per month, 1,200 per year for over twenty or thirty years? It could be as many as 40,000 students trained in S.E.R.E. and “tortured” at the direction of, and under the watchful eye of the Congressional Majorities on both sides of the aisle.

BTW, the levels are A,B,C, D...NOT 1,2,3,4

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Old 02-09-2010, 09:49 AM
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Ya, cause no innocent Iraqis have been apprehended for no reason, and subjected to waterboarding.... Nope, its only used on the top leaders who plan the attacks.
Even IF true (a big if), that statement has no link whatsoever to this story.
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