Dogs of War Murder Iraqis?

apotropoxy · #1 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Iraqi police say U.S. troops executed 11, including baby
By Matthew Schofield
Knight Ridder Newspapers
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Iraqi police have accused U.S. troops of executing 11 people, including a 75-year-old woman and a 6-month-old infant, in the aftermath of a raid Wednesday on a house about 60 miles north of Baghdad. (…)
The villagers were killed after U.S. troops herded them into a single room of the house, according to a police document obtained by Knight Ridder Newspapers. The soldiers also burned three vehicles, killed the villagers' animals and blew up the house, the document said. (…)
But the report of the recent killings in the Abu Sifa area of Ishaqi, eight miles north of the city of Balad, is unusual because it originated with Iraqi police and because Iraqi police were willing to attach their names to it.
Brig. Gen. Issa al-Juboori, who heads the center, said his office assembled the report on Thursday and that it accurately reflects the direction of the current police investigation. He also said he knows the officer heading the investigation. "He's a dedicated policeman, and a good cop," he said. "I trust him." (…)
Neighbors agreed in interviews that the al-Qaida member was at the house. They said he was visiting the home's owner, a relative. The neighbors said the homeowner was a schoolteacher. (…)
According to police, military and eyewitness accounts, U.S. forces approached the house at around 2:30 a.m. and a firefight ensued. By all accounts, in addition to exchanging gunfire with someone inside the house, U.S. troops were supported by helicopter gunships, which fired on the house.
But the accounts differ on what took place after the firefight.
According to the U.S. account, the house collapsed because of the heavy fire. When U.S. forces searched the rubble they found one man, the al-Qaida suspect, alive. He was arrested. They also found a dead man they believed to be connected to al-Qaida, two dead women and a dead child.
But the report filed by the Joint Coordination Center, which was based on a report filed by local police, said U.S. forces entered the house while it still was standing. (…)
"The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 persons, including five children, four women and two men," the report said. "Then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals." (…)
The report identified the dead by name, giving their ages. The two men killed were 22 and 28. Of the women, one was 22, another was 23, a third was 30 and the fourth was 75. Two of the children were 5 years old, two were 3, and the fifth was 6 months old, the document said.
The report was signed by Col. Fadhil Muhammed Khalaf, who was described in the document as the assistant chief of the Joint Coordination Center.
A local police commander, Lt. Col. Farooq Hussain, interviewed by a Knight Ridder special correspondent in Ishaqi, said autopsies at the hospital in Tikrit "revealed that all the victims had bullet shots in the head and all bodies were handcuffed." Efforts to reach hospital spokesmen Sunday were unsuccessful. (...)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ivilians20.htm

l

Looks more and more like Vietnam every day.

Sleepy · #2 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 05:46 AM

According to a quote from your article "But the accounts differ on what took place after the firefight.
According to the U.S. account, the house collapsed because of the heavy fire. When U.S. forces searched the rubble they found one man, the al-Qaida suspect, alive. He was arrested. They also found a dead man they believed to be connected to al-Qaida, two dead women and a dead child

Why is it you don't even consider the American version of events? Could it be that you wouldn't want this to be the truth. Since the Al Qaida suspect was the only one alive, how truthful do you think his description of what happened was? It appears you would rather believe him than the Americans.

Sleepy · #3 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 05:47 AM

According to a quote from your article "But the accounts differ on what took place after the firefight.
According to the U.S. account, the house collapsed because of the heavy fire. When U.S. forces searched the rubble they found one man, the al-Qaida suspect, alive. He was arrested. They also found a dead man they believed to be connected to al-Qaida, two dead women and a dead child

Why is it you don't even consider the American version of events? Could it be that you wouldn't want this to be the truth. Since the Al Qaida suspect was the only one alive, how truthful do you think his description of what happened was? It appears you would rather believe him than the Americans.

Sleepy · #4 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 06:11 AM

Don't you find it strange that the only survivor was the Al Qaida suspect? I think the Al Qaida guy shot the household before the Americans got there. Why else is he the only one left standing?

#5 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 07:22 AM

read the bold:
But the report filed by the Joint Coordination Center, which was based on a report filed by local police
In other words the al quaeda guy didn't file anything it was local police. also, with the autopsy results you think that somebody involved with al queada would have a surplus of handcuffs laying around? and it makes a whole lot of sense to kill a relatives whole family just for the remote chance that it may setup the americans

[/b]

Johnderondon · #6 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 08:04 AM

I find this story extremely hard to believe.

Firstly, the implied barbarity is, I think, extremely unusual in armies as professional as the US`s.

Secondly, the Iraqi police are a rather unrelible source. This is not to say that eveything they say is wrong. Merely that I won`t take their word as Gospel.

Thirdly, I`m a mite suspicious about a raid on Wednesday but couldn`t get a hospital statement on Sunday. Why the delay?

I`ll be interested to hear any follow-up to this story but I suspect the US army`s account is probably closer to the truth.

After all, it was hardly a glowing action, was it?

The US military has got a bad guy trapped in a house with civilians (including at least one child).

The bad guy shots at them.

The Army calls in helicopter gunships and between the ground and the air pour so much ordinance into the house that they kill all the civilians, then they kill the house and, finally, when just a smoking ruin remains, they go and have a look and find the only thing they`ve missed is the guy they were aiming at.

Now that has a ring of truth

#7 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnderondon";p=&quot

I find this story extremely hard to believe.

Firstly, the implied barbarity is, I think, extremely unusual in armies as professional as the US`s.

Secondly, the Iraqi police are a rather unrelible source. This is not to say that eveything they say is wrong. Merely that I won`t take their word as Gospel.

Thirdly, I`m a mite suspicious about a raid on Wednesday but couldn`t get a hospital statement on Sunday. Why the delay?

I`ll be interested to hear any follow-up to this story but I suspect the US army`s account is probably closer to the truth.

After all, it was hardly a glowing action, was it?

The US military has got a bad guy trapped in a house with civilians (including at least one child).

The bad guy shots at them.

The Army calls in helicopter gunships and between the ground and the air pour so much ordinance into the house that they kill all the civilians, then they kill the house and, finally, when just a smoking ruin remains, they go and have a look and find the only thing they`ve missed is the guy they were aiming at.

Now that has a ring of truth

but was it the iraqi police who did the autopsy? why would so many unconnected people lie? and if the iraqi police are trying to frame the americans then why the hell are the americans bothering trying to get them to take over their jobs as enforcers? whichever way you look at it something is very wrong and the US is supposed to be the ones managing things. sounds like a huge mess to me

Sleepy · #8 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 09:05 AM

The autopsy states they were shot, not who shot them.

Johnderondon · #9 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 09:59 AM

The article didn`t quote the coroner.

It only quoted what a Iraqi police officer said.

If the hospital coroner independantly confirms that would lend more credance to the story.

It still seems incredible.

Johnderondon · #10 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy";p=&quot

The autopsy states they were shot, not who shot them.

That`s a good point.

Not the earlier bit about the Al`queada guy doing it. I mean, come on, the guy goes to see his mate and ends up shooting them and their kids? Not a

very frequent occurence I`d wager.

But the Iraqi police have come under suspicion of doing a little death squadding recently.

I wonder if they`re trying to pass the blame

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