of the US invasion and occupation.


That is a critical point, because the US following the advice of the market economic dominated World Bank is about to push through major fuel price increases in Iraq.


So much for the neo-con argument that the Iraqis like the US troop presence.



http://tinyurl.com/m32h6

__________________
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

What a great mess we've made!

the mess in Iraq bad as it is, will convince the US public to avoid worse wars elsewhere. But we have created deep hatred of the US in many ME countries, which is likely to have grim consequences down the road. If American posters realize just how badly we were hated now, which was not the case before the war started, in the Arab world they would realize just how idiotic this war has been.

__________________
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

The situation is bad. It never should have come to this.

Looking at the current situation now and how to make Iraq succeed as a democratic country is our primary goal.

So if the current strategy is not making things better. If so many don't trust the US troops so that 50% think attacks against them are justified and 1% think they can trust us with their safety, then our troop presence is not very stabilizing. Withdrawing our troops and letting the Iraqi government run Iraq is the long term way to stabilize Iraq. Well, it is the short term way as well.

Being realistic, we need to wait the 30 days for the new cabinet to be formed, the Iraqi paliment to confirm the cabinet and the structure of the new government to form before we withdraw all our troops. But we should make plans with the new government for troop withdrawl quickly and start a phases withdrawl in months of a new government being formed.[/list]

a democratic government in Iraq that would last and have any substantive meaning was always a fantasy based on ignorance of the region and the nature of what it takes to create a democratic government. There were massive studies of this subject beginning in the sixties, its a vast literature including by market theorist. None of it suggest that any such institution can be created with the starting conditions that exist in Iraq in 03 in less than a decade if then. Even if one existed it would not be secular or tolerant as we understand democracy to be - they simply dont exist in the space Iraq occupies and never have.

We are not going to be in Iraq in a decade. We should have worked for a authoritarian government that would have had a decent human rights and economic system supported by an army that enforced such. Essentially do in Iraq what Attaturk did in Turkey (which is at best a partial democracy and often not that maintained by military power).

__________________
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

Guys! This hyar is a war on terrrrr we're a fightin'! And doncha know, we're better off fightin' 'em over yonder than over hyar?! And, and, and... like 7 of them hijack dudes wuz Iraqis! And Saddam wuz bad dude. He had to go. He wuz like another Hitler and all.

But you fellers just need to remember one thing! If'n you ain't wid us... you is agin us! And we know who you is and where you live. If'n you ain't got nuttin' to hide, that thar Patriot Act won't bother you none. Our leaders are jest doin' what's best fer our nation. They is honest and good and God is on our side.

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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."

Loscon, you made me laugh with your post. Quite funny.