[quote="apotropoxy";p="253262"]...see.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062701708.html

__________________
Cheney is the second executive officer to shoot someone in the face and chest. Clinton was the first.

What nation in the future would ever consider cooperating with the US in any secret intelligence gathering, knowing the US cannot keep their operations secret and off the front pages of the NY al-Times? NONE!

Our national security has been breached, and the guilty must pay!

__________________
"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

Well, I had to pick one of the responses to reply to, so I picked yours, since it seemed the most obvious.

Look, I'm actually digging into this thing, 'cause I want to know what's going on. I don't take anything for granted in this day and age, especially not in the political sphere.

I'm not a Dem, and I have no idea why the NYT chose to sit on this story for several months and then suddenly decided to publish it. All I want, is the truth.

So, I've been doing some more research. Here's what I found:

In addition to the 1998 article I linked to (which was the earliest one), there have been four articles in the newspapers over the last 8 years, that specifically mention this program, and mention SWIFT by name. The dates are: one in 2002, two in 2003, and one in 2004. All of them are post-9/11, and all of them talk about "tracking terrorist money".

Plus, there was a 30-page report from the United Nations in 2002, that detailed this SWIFT program almost as well as the NYT times just did.

Now, in some other world, your quote (bolded above), might apply, but we're not living in a "reasonable" political world. I'm sure the NYT has advertising interests, readership interests, and political interests, that transcend any dedication they might have to publishing "news". I can't account for their logic behind this thing.

All I can do is show you the facts. And the facts are exactly as I just stated them.

I don't know about you guys, but this thing seemed so wierd to me, from a political standpoint, that I really wanted to know the truth. The very first lesson in politics (it's almost axiomatic these days), is that you can never trust anything your elected officials are saying, so I got on the ground and sifted through literally tens of thousands of Google records to find this stuff.

But once found, the truth becomes painfully obvious, and it's undeniable. You can sit there and make all the excuses you want, and dream up whatever "reasons" and "logic" you want, but that doesn't change the facts.

The facts are: that this information was published before, the recent NYT article added almost nothing new, and the Bush administration is lying to you about how "sensitive" this is.

How can you try to deny this stuff when it's staring you right in the face?

Riddle me that one, Batman.

Nah, better yet - this is like a Sherlock Holmes thing: "When all other possibilities are eliminated, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

And the truth is right in your face on this one. You may not like it, and you may not even be able to explain it, but there it is.

Then I once again pose this question: What nation in the future would ever consider cooperating with the US in any secret intelligence gathering, knowing the US cannot keep their operations secret and off the front pages of the NY al-Times? NONE!

__________________
"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

True..

Be like Afghans believing the USA IF it runs from Iraq.

Well, yeah you're right, at one level.

But frankly Barney, I'm much more concerned about what happens right here at home, than I am about what happens in any foreign country.

I think (that is, it seems to me) that this situation has more to do with domestic politics, than it does with foreign intelligence-gathering.

Imagine my chagrin, when I discover that the man I chose to represent me in the highest office in the land, is now lying to me through his teeth? I mean, that would be right up there with discovering that your wife is cheating on you.

I feel betrayed, and I feel like I'm being manipulated, and I don't appreciate it.

Angry? You bet. I'm mad as hell.

My real question, is "why"? That, I don't have the answer to (yet). But I'm going to keep digging on this one. Somewhere, somehow, at some point in time, the truth is going to come out. 'Cause you know there has to be a good reason for this, right? Politicians don't go to these lengths for no reason. There has to be something going on, and I want to know what it is.

This situation reeks of something foul, and I have no idea whether it's important or not (say, perhaps, as significant as the Nixon tapes, which resulted in the infamous "Rosemary Woods stretch" and all that), but I'll find out. I'm not an investigative reporter, but I'm pretty darn good with a computer, and if I find anything you'll be the first to know about it (and after that it'll get plastered all over every TV station, web site, and blog in the country, 'cause I don't know about you, but I'm not going to take stuff like this lying down).

This is the public trust we're talking about, and if there's nothing sacred about that anymore, I'd suggest to you that such a situation would be equally bad as (if not worse than) any "intelligence leaking" that may or may not have occurred.

'Nuff said.

No, this is our nation's national security we are talking about. Demo icon FDR threw people in jail for far less serious crimes than this, as did Lincoln.

But thanks to al-Qaeda’s best friend and ally, the NY al-Times, we can no longer be trusted by any foreign nation in the gathering of intelligence necessary in protecting our nation's national security.

__________________
"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

Sounds real bad Barney. Can you link me to any stories from other countries that have shown any concern what so ever over this?

Since no one can trust us anymore maybe we could just shut all operations down and bring everyone home. We could put them to work spying on Mexico until we gain our trust back.

__________________
Voltaire: “Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.”

No, I think a better option is executing persons found guilty of treason.

__________________
"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
Winston Churchill

That would mean that SWIFT itself is guilty of treason, for putting all that info online on its website and putting it in print in its magazine...which I'm sure is subscribed to by members of Al Qaida. And they published this stuff before the NYT did.

Well--I'm glad we agree that SWIFT should be put out of business.

__________________
I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible.
HuffPo's Off The Bus campaign coverage project....Off The Bus Blog