Political Forum  

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2006, 02:34 PM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 40
Posts: 14,554
usa us minnesota
raytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 92,837
Default Ballot access idiocy

Ballot access is restrictive enough without adding inflexible bureaucracy to the mix.

Two examples from this election season in Minnesota:

Rep. Gil Gutknecht, who routinely files petitions to get on the ballot rather than pay a $300 filing fee (a gimmick meant to highlight his fiscal conservativism), is facing a challenge because he gathered the signatures for the petition outside of a two-week window prescribed by state law.
http://www.startribune.com/587/story/614563.html

As an aside, I'm not sure how this highlights Gutknecht's careful use of money, since it seems to me that it could easily cost more than $300 to gather the necessary signatures.

But more importantly, this is stupid. The purpose of a petition requirement is to demonstrate some minimal level of support so that the ballot isn't cluttered with dozens of cranks and protest candidates. It's reasonable to have some sort of time requirement to ensure that the signatures are relatively "fresh", but a two-week window right before the filing deadline is unnecessarily restrictive.

And trying to disqualify Gutknecht from running on such a technicality -- when he could have just paid the $300 to file -- is a tactic that damages democracy.

Meanwhile, an Independence Party candidate for the state House, Brian Smith, has been left off the ballot for following instructions from the Secretary of State's office.
http://www.startribune.com/587/story/614441.html

Quote:
Smith, 35, went to the office of Secretary of State Mary Kiffmeyer on July 18, the final day of filing, to throw his hat in the ring to succeed state Rep. Keith Ellison, DFL-Minneapolis. He paid a $100 filing fee to enter the Independence Party primary election and gave an affidavit of candidacy to Kiffmeyer.

There was one problem: Under state law, Smith was supposed to file in Hennepin County, not at the secretary of state's office in St. Paul.
Okay, two things. First, Smith should get a pass simply because he was given bad info by Kiffmeyer's office. Second and more importantly, though, should someone really be kept off the ballot because they filed in the wrong office? Is that really supportive of democracy?

Ballot access should be considered a near-right. Restrictions on it must be reasonable and narrowly construed. And candidates should be given the benefit of the doubt in nearly all cases, rather than kept from running because of stupid technicalities. Give voters more choices, not fewer.
__________________
Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2006, 07:18 PM
bktx1 bktx1 is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas
Posts: 577
bktx1 is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,860
Default it seems inflexible and petty, but

the rules are the rules. One of the tricks of the trade in any bureaucracy is to put up barriers to throw off the less serious, the pretenders, so that only the serious and motivated will continue. This is true of welfare recipients and politicians alike.

These guys should have known better. If a guy doesn't know how to file, or where to file, how can I expect him to protect my interests?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2006, 08:47 AM
quiller's Avatar
quiller quiller is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,798
quiller is on a distinguished road
Credits: 16,442
Default .

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
should someone really be kept off the ballot because they filed in the wrong office? Is that really supportive of democracy?
I have always believed you can get a pilot's license for a Boeing 777 just by going to your friendly city hall clerk and takling out a permit to expand your garage. I'm then going to get a permit to construct my own nuclear power-plant, by talking to the Chamber of Commerce.

That sounds pretty lame, doesn't it, when applied to "the wrong office" argument you make.
__________________
Delivering tasty bite-sized Clues to liberals since 1965.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2006, 08:58 AM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 40
Posts: 14,554
usa us minnesota
raytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 92,837
Default dgdgdg

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiller";p=&quot View Post
That sounds pretty lame, doesn't it, when applied to "the wrong office" argument you make.
It would if it was relevant.

The Secretary of State is responsible for certifying candidates. So going to her office to register is not akin to getting a pilot's license at a laundromat. It's going to the source, having your registration accepted, and then having it rejected after the fact because you were supposed to hand your registration in at an office in a different county, which would then forward it to the Secretary of State.
__________________
Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2006, 03:48 PM
remman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default What about.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiller";p=&quot View Post
That sounds pretty lame, doesn't it, when applied to "the wrong office" argument you make.
It would if it was relevant.

The Secretary of State is responsible for certifying candidates. So going to her office to register is not akin to getting a pilot's license at a laundromat. It's going to the source, having your registration accepted, and then having it rejected after the fact because you were supposed to hand your registration in at an office in a different county, which would then forward it to the Secretary of State.
Doesn't the candidate bear some responsibility for knowing the process before the dead line arrives and before entering into the process? While I acknowledge that the mis-step is somewhat understandable what does it say about the candidate and his/her understanding of the process?
What about the responsibility of the person receiving the submission? Wouldn't you think that person would know they did not accept it?
I smell a conspiracy to keep some one off the ballot!!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2006, 06:34 AM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 40
Posts: 14,554
usa us minnesota
raytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to beholdraytri is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 92,837
Default dgdgdg

Quote:
Originally Posted by remman";p=&quot View Post
Doesn't the candidate bear some responsibility for knowing the process before the dead line arrives and before entering into the process?
Some. But given the complexities involved, I think it's perfectly reasonable for a candidate to ask someone who should know, like the Secretary of State's office, and then follow that advice.

Getting screwed by bureaucracy isn't a disqualifying blemish on a candidate, IMO.

Quote:
I smell a conspiracy to keep some one off the ballot!!
I smell incompetence.
__________________
Scarred survivor of the April 2008 Mod War.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google Yahoo Furl Reddit

Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Release Candidate 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4