Last night, at about 20:00 local time, the man know as "The Old Crocodile" last truly Apartheid President of South Africa, Former President PW Botha passed away at the age of 90.

He became Prime-minster in 1978, and immediately started reforming the government system, abolishing the offices of State -president and Prime-Minister and becoming first president of South Africa.

He used to be minster of Defense, and his very close relationship with the armed forces was very worrying for many democratic minded people even in his own party.

He announced reforms in the country, starting separate Parliaments for colourd and Indian South Africans, apart form the white Parliament (which had much much more power than the other 2), but would no allow a Parliament for black people. He also pushed the development of separate states for black South Africans.

He created the State Security Counsel, which had the safety of the country as it's main goal. It consisted of himself, and generals from the military and police and Intelligence officials. No member of Parliament or cabinet was allowed on this, and gave him powers close to that of a dictator (an elected dictator,what an idea).

Under him violence by police and army against civilians increased drastically, and the war in Angola escalated.

He was finally forced from office by his own cabinet in 1988 after he had a stroke, and replaced by the much more moderate FW de Klerk.

PW Botha who personally ordered the death of many South Africans refused to appear in front of the Truth and Reconciliation commission. He came back to fame in 2001 when Bishop Tutu went to meet him at his home to resolve this issue. He met Archbishop Tutu at the gate of his estate, saying "I do not allow terrorists into my house"

It is strange - the white right wing hate him, since they say his reforms was the beginning of the end for white rule in SA. The white liberals hate him, because he was an undemocratic leader who's reforms was make-up and not true. And blacks hate him since he caused the death of many of them.

He died yesterday, and no one really cares, no one is really sad.

And that makes me sad - how could one man have gotten it soooo wrong.

Anyway, doubt if any of you care. But just thought I'd let you know, the old Crocodile is dead, long live Democracy in South Africa

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...023559,00.html

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“Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.”

Well I might as well say goodbye now.

I hated the man and was very pleased when he was ousted as President.

Trouble is you now have to give him a state funeral!


I wonder what the Worlds record is for the lowest attented state funeral?

I do agree, not many will be there, I know I am not going!

The question on a state funural is still open for debate. The state will have to offer it, but for two reasons it might not happen - herefused to recognize the current government (but did accept their monthly pension check) and I think his will might have said something of not having one.

and secondly he belongs to the puritan Hervormde kerk (re-reformed church) and they believe death and funurals are a family thing and should be kept private

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“Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.”

It's been confirmed lunecat, PW's family have refused the governments offer for a state funeral.

One of their reasons - he would then have to be buried under the new South African flag, and they find that unexceptable. It seems he raised little clones (or clowns) of himself

But has veteran ANC politician Magusutho Buthelezi said today :'African culture says we should never say bad things of the dead, so I will say that I knew PW Botha. thank you.'

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“Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.”

well that is good that the family have refused the state funeral, saves the embarrassment...

I heard a few emails into some British news media stations from South Afrcans - many said he was a good man because of the law and order he imposed compared to today where white folk live in fear of kidnap etc ...

I suppose freedom comes at a price ...

As opposed to when he ruled, and millins of blacks lived in fear of being kidnapped by the police, and never from again!

And under his rule we lived in the constant fear of terroristattacks, yeah, the 'good old days'

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“Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.”

of Botha and APARTHEID is the one reason I dislike Reagan to this day. And to top it all, Dick Cheney had the "nerve" to call Mandela a TERRORIST!!

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"Only a fool tests the depth of the water with both feet."