I think a good business mode is to have goals. And like most businesses, those goals can and should be moveable.

Most people agree that we didn't have a plan (for whatever reason) after the fall of Baghdad.

I also believe it was a smart political move to have a goal knowing that it won't work but be able to say you tried - now the other side has no plan at all but to "win."

To "win" and to have an exit time line are both obscure plans.

It appears we may have to search for generals who are able to tell the politicians of both parties to get out of the way but we haven't had one of those since McArthur and Eisenhower and that bunch.

Leaving Iraq to al qaeda and Iran would be the noble and peaceful thing to do. Isn't that what all liberals have done throughout history is give up and quit, let the enemy have their way? It is such a shame that the left are so doomed to repeat history, but then again, Forrest Gump said it best, "stupid is, as stupid does".

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/me.../24/iraq.main/

"We say for all traitors, the officials in [Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri] al-Maliki's infidel government, that the worst waits for you. You will never be safe as long as we are alive and our hearts are beating," the posting said.

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Cheney is the second executive officer to shoot someone in the face and chest. Clinton was the first.

So how exactly do we ever leave Iraq if we don't set an end date? Do we trick the terrorists and just up and leave one day without telling anyone?

Either we stay until we have successfully completed our mission, or we immediately after we admit defeat and surrender. That's usually the way it's done, no? Have we ever named an end date for any war before successfully completing the task at hand?

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WARNING: In the unlikely event of an accidental agreement with any or all points made in the above post, contact a clinical psychologist immediately.

The views expressed in the above post are not necessarily those of Joker and/or any of his affiliates.

"You have found the secret message. Do you have too much time on your hands? ...Let it go."

Phase 1 Arm the enemy

Phase 2 Fight the enemy

Phase 3 arm the insurgents

Phase 4 fight the insurgents

Phase 5 Start a civil war

Phase 6 call for reinforcements

Phase 7 redo phases 3 & 4

Phase 8 start widen the conflict by redoing phase 3 & 4

Phase 9 .................?

speculating here ... could 9 be instigate a basis to go to war with another of the axes of evil?

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“Mayor Palin fails to have a firm grasp of something very simple: the truth.”

[Frontiersman editorial, 2/7/97]

there's no victory to obtain there. going there was a mistake to begin with. and even if anyone thinks it wasn't, bush indicated that if saddam and his sons left, military conflict could be averted. well, they're gone now... mission accomplished.

It is such a LAME excuse when people say the USA will leave after they "successfully complete the mission."
What is the requirements for success?

It use to be when they got rid of Saddam.
Then it was when Iraq formed it's own government.
now?
what?

When they stop Terrorists from coming into Iraq?
Better start building that wall around the country.
Terrorists will continue to enter Iraq as long as there are American soldiers to kill.
Look at Afghanistan.
The terrorists are still there since 911.
Sure there have been successes there but the "war on terror" is still going on in Afghanistan.

When they kill all the Iraqi Insurgence?
The longer the America stay and "Occupies" Iraq, the easier it is for insurgence to recruit new members.

Is it when Iraq has a huge Army?
4 years and they still don't have a huge army to defend themselves.

Please tell me what the specific definition is for success in Iraq.
Don't use the broad lame excuses like
"when Iraq can stand on there own"
That is such a lame crock of an excuse.

If you are waiting for the 3 groups to finally kiss and make up, Iraq might just as well become the 51, 52 and 53 States of America.
Divide up Iraq into 3 new States for America.

Please tell us here what else have to be accomplished in Iraq?

I already explained it to you, but I'll tell you again.

There are three things that need to be completed before the major bulk of US troops will leave Iraq:

1. A stable Iraqi gvernment capable of defending itself against internal military dissent needs to be established.

2. Agreements favorable to the US must be made concerning the exportation of oil controlled by said gov't.

3. A couple of military bases need to be established within the nation and be fully operational.

There you go. When all three of these things are accomplished, I promise the vast majority of US troops will leave Iraq.

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WARNING: In the unlikely event of an accidental agreement with any or all points made in the above post, contact a clinical psychologist immediately.

The views expressed in the above post are not necessarily those of Joker and/or any of his affiliates.

"You have found the secret message. Do you have too much time on your hands? ...Let it go."

Could be, but I didn't want to put anything to controversial in.