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Old 04-11-2007, 01:14 PM
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Very little coverage in much of the media....
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2007, 02:16 PM
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Gee, even Fox news missed it. From that I conclude that Fox news is part of the liberal news media
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The12thMan";p=&quot View Post
Too Conservative
Yep. Note the line: "Can you guess how many stories the San Francisco Chronicle, and their partners in the old line liberal media, have written about the ethics scandal involving Senator Dianne Feinstein, which reportedly forced her to resign from the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee (MILCON)?"

Except that by the time she resigned, there was no possibility of a conflict of interest. So the speculation that she was "forced to resign" because of scandal is nonsense.

Quote:
Too Liberal
They're mad because she approved war spending -- any war spending. Again, all they can point to is that her husband's companies won some of the contracts approved by her subcommittee. I still do not see how she could have used her position to steer money to him.

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Just right:
This is the alternative weekly that has been reporting on the issue. Notice how everything comes back to them?

Note again this fact:

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Each year, MILCON's members decide which military construction projects will be funded from a roster proposed by the Department of Defense. Contracts to build these specific projects are subsequently awarded to such major defense contractors as Halliburton, Fluor, Parsons, Louis Berger, URS Corporation and Perini Corporation.
The Pentagon draws up its wish-list of projects. Congress then decides which to fund. So at best she could have voted to approve projects that she thought her husband's company might be bidding for. But the bidding itself was open and not controlled by her.

Should she recuse herself from any vote that her husband's companies might have an interest in? To be totally pristine, yes. But I think that's going way beyond what's necessary. As long as she recused herself from votes on projects where her husband's firms already had won the contract, she's fine.

The article cites examples of Feinstein questioning defense officials about projects, some of which later -- sometimes *much* later -- went to her husband's firms. That's not particularly compelling.

Some of the examples are frankly silly. Feinstein asks about "beddown" facilities. *Two years* later, URS gets a whopping $42 million for such a facility as part of a *multibillion dollar* contract to refurbish Hickam Air Base.

Similarly, the Pentagon asked for money to reinforce barracks roofs in Iraq against mortar rounds. Several months later, Perini gets a $185 million contract to do some of the work. Where's the conflict? Is anyone arguing that the project wasn't needed?

The most interesting example involves "task orders", in which her husband's firms had open-ended contracts and Congress kept pouring money into them. If Feinstein voted on those task orders, she was wrong. But the article does not make that claim.

The best they come up with is this:

The senator could have chosen to serve on a subcommittee where she had no potential conflict of interests at all.

That's thin gruel.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The12thMan";p=&quot View Post
How can you say she doesn't have conflict of interest when something like $1.5 BILLION was awarded to companies her husband had ties to. It's like you're saying she couldn't possibly be interested in these contracts because her vote didn't count. Wow.
No, because the causation goes the other way.

1. Congress approves money for Project X (through the MilCon subcommittee that Feinstein sat on).

2. Independent government agency puts Project X out for bids, selects contractors and begins work.

How does Feinstein having one of a dozen votes in #1 create a conflict in #2? The point here is that Congress/Feinstein is not selecting or approving contractors.
Wow. You amaze me, Raytri. That's like saying that one Senator--because there's 100 of them----has a vote that doesn't count for anything and they can do anything they want to do. Bottom line is that she was one of a handful of Senators that approved Project X that benefitted her husband and therefore her as well.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Wow. You amaze me, Raytri. That's like saying that one Senator--because there's 100 of them----has a vote that doesn't count for anything and they can do anything they want to do.
You're focusing on something that wasn't even my main point. The main reason a conflict is difficult to imagine is because for the most part Congress approves contracts, and *then* the contracts are put out for bid. The "one of a dozen" line was simply meant to put her overall influence in context.

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Bottom line is that she was one of a handful of Senators that approved Project X that benefitted her husband and therefore her as well.
Yes, except she had no way of knowing whether her husband's company would get the contracts when she approved the projects. On the few contracts where she would have, she should have recused herself.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
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Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Oh yes I can. I'm complaining about the lack of coverage on one....and the overkill coverage on the other.
Okay, then we have to get into the relative prominence and influence of the Veep -- and the use of no-bid contracts -- versus a single senator voting on projects that are subject to competitive bidding.
Oh puhleeze!! So because there's 100 of them, Senators can hide their conflicts of interest better.

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
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Well,gee.....what about "where there's smoke; there must be some fire?"
I've never said that. The quality and quantity of smoke is important.
And generally the smoke is more prominent and noticeable when it's on the Republican side of the aisle, right?

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
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Where was the investigation to take a little "look see??"
What would be the basis for the investigation? With Gonzales, you have a specific action to investigate -- the unusual firing of eight prosecutors, and the false and changing explanations that followed.
NONE of which is ILLEGAL or a CRIME....right???? In fact, because there was no "there, there" regarding the reasons for firing them....the Dem leadership has skipped ahead to Reason #3: "incompetency."

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
With Feinstein, the only thing you've got is that she sat on the MilCon committee, and her husband owned two defense contractors. There's not a scrap of a suggestion that there was wrongdoing -- just an independent weekly saying it could be a conflict.
AND how very nice for her that the media isn't putting it on the front pages everyday and trying their darnest to blow it all out of proportion!!

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
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Well, I can't see a credible problem with the firings of 8 political appointees either. But we're sure getting a big TO DO over that!!
Opinions vary, of course. But I think that there's an objective difference between the two.
That's because you're looking at it through biased eyes that says those nasty Republicans MUST have done something wrong. Frankly, there was far more smoke in the e-mails of the Dems on the Judiciary Committee a few years ago, but it was glossed over. Calling Bush's nominees "nazi's----the NAACP writing Kennedy and telling him to "delay" a judicial nominee at least until a Minority Rights case gets decided---where it WAS delayed and the case was decided 5-4; and a Senator--John Edwards writing Leahy and telling him to delay nominees because it would hurt his contributors. THOSE are ALL things much, much, much worse than what we have here.
And you remember what those Dems said about it? They said...."while unseemly, nothing there was criminal." And nothing happened to them. No one had to step down or resign or anything. SAME thing should happen here. That is IF fairness is to prevail.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:44 PM
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And generally the smoke is more prominent and noticeable when it's on the Republican side of the aisle, right?
Jefferson. Molhollan. I rest my case.

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NONE of which is ILLEGAL or a CRIME....right????
We've been over this. It's tangential to this thread.

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AND how very nice for her that the media isn't putting it on the front pages everyday and trying their darnest to blow it all out of proportion!!
There are 534 other members of Congress, including hundreds of Republicans who are not being pilloried in the media.

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That's because you're looking at it through biased eyes that says those nasty Republicans MUST have done something wrong.
I have, in fact, said much the opposite -- that all you've got right now are questions that need answers. Other than the lying to Congress, of course.

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Frankly, there was far more smoke in the e-mails of the Dems on the Judiciary Committee a few years ago, but it was glossed over.
No there wasn't. I think you're trying to twist the questions over the White House e-mail systems to say it's about "discussing politics." It's not. It's about conducting party business on government gear, and vice versa. The two situations are not comparable, no matter how much you'd like them to be.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:44 PM
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BTW, Raytri.....here's a question for you on this subject....speaking of conflicts of interest and fairness and all:

Do think Senator Chuck Shumer, who sits on this Judiciary Committe who is trying to get rid of one of Bush's top appointees ought to recuse himself? Considering Shumer is Chairman of the political organization, the DSCC? They've taken it down now....but recently there was a quote by Schumer that said....."the way to get rid of a Bush is by the roots." So, what do you think? Should Schumer recuse himself?
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:51 PM
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BTW, Raytri.....here's a question for you on this subject....speaking of conflicts of interest and fairness and all:

Do think Senator Chuck Shumer, who sits on this Judiciary Committe who is trying to get rid of one of Bush's top appointees ought to recuse himself? Considering Shumer is Chairman of the political organization, the DSCC? They've taken it down now....but recently there was a quote by Schumer that said....."the way to get rid of a Bush is by the roots." So, what do you think? Should Schumer recuse himself?
Recuse himself from what? The Justice investigation?

No. Relationships between the branches are *meant* to be political. If Schumer pushes the partisan angle too hard, he will be punished politically.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
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And generally the smoke is more prominent and noticeable when it's on the Republican side of the aisle, right?
Jefferson. Molhollan. I rest my case.
But where are those two now? Oh yeah....right STILL in their positions and with nothing going on in the Democrats talking points about them either. No investigations there, right???

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
NONE of which is ILLEGAL or a CRIME....right????
We've been over this. It's tangential to this thread.
Huh? So it doesn't matter that it's not a crime to replace Attorney's for ANY reason?

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
AND how very nice for her that the media isn't putting it on the front pages everyday and trying their darnest to blow it all out of proportion!!
There are 534 other members of Congress, including hundreds of Republicans who are not being pilloried in the media.
But none that I can think of who had such a conflict of interest and got NO mainstream press over it.

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
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That's because you're looking at it through biased eyes that says those nasty Republicans MUST have done something wrong.
I have, in fact, said much the opposite -- that all you've got right now are questions that need answers. Other than the lying to Congress, of course.
And we already know that lying isn't a problem....because Leahy and Schumer have told us that what they are doing isn't political. That's the biggest LIE ever.

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Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Frankly, there was far more smoke in the e-mails of the Dems on the Judiciary Committee a few years ago, but it was glossed over.
No there wasn't. I think you're trying to twist the questions over the White House e-mail systems to say it's about "discussing politics." It's not. It's about conducting party business on government gear, and vice versa. The two situations are not comparable, no matter how much you'd like them to be.
Oh really? I thought it was at least partially about interfering with the judicial process and or cases. Isn't that one of the things the Dem leadership is now trying to prove happened?

If Kennedy and the Dem Judiciary members did, in fact, do what the NAACP asked them to do....and delayed that nomination until the Minority Rights case was decided 5-4.....that IS United States Senators in position of power interfering with the judicial system. Is it not?

And the real hypocrisy is that they blast Sen Dominici inquiring about a case. When they've done much worse.
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