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Old 05-01-2007, 09:46 AM
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Default "League of Democracy" idea proposed by McCain

I have been wanting something like this for a long long time. Nice to see I am not the only one anymore:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican presidential candidate John McCain envisions a "League of Democracies" as part of a more cooperative foreign policy with U.S. allies.

The Arizona senator will call for such an organization to be "the core of an international order of peace based on freedom" in a speech Tuesday at the Hoover Institution in Stanford, Calif.

[...] "It could act where the U.N. fails to act," McCain says.

[...] And, McCain adds, an organization of democracies could pressure tyrants "with or without Moscow's and Beijing's approval" and could "impose sanctions on Iran and thwart its nuclear ambitions" while helping struggling democracies succeed.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...n-policy_N.htm
I'm starting to like him a lot more.
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:50 AM
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Default Hey Folks

I disagree that's Freedom. Besides, the time to have done this successfully I calculate is over.
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:55 AM
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Default ...

Your calculations are wrong.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:07 AM
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This definitely seems another reason to support McCain (especially since my Crat pick is at about 3% in the polls last I've seen).
I hope it learns from the mistakes of the UN and treats all democracies, big and small, as equals... None of that elite circle veto power crap.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:37 AM
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Another international organization? Well, since the others have worked so well.......
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:56 AM
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Default Conspiracy Theory?

I posted on the "Conspiracy Theories" how staunchly opposed I am to even the idea of the conspiracy theory. However, this thread leads me to possibly support a conspiracy theory that I used to think was one of the most ridiculous of them all. I am experiencing all sorts of cognitive dissonance trying to put all the facts and my beliefs in order.

I might possibly, in a longshot, believe that this might help support the idea of Shadow Governments. This might lead to an AU (American Union) similar to the EU where our American soveriegnty is called under question. John McCain is an open boarders nut, and the idea of unity around the world might lead to the disintegration of our boarders that I believe are there for a purpose, especially our southern boarder with Mexico. I want us to distinguish ourselves from Mexico as much as we possibly can, considering that Mexico is our geographical neighbor and we can't physically push Mexico away from us. I've been to Mexico. The only thing pretty about it is its coastline, and that is mainly for tourists to enjoy.

Another facet of this concerns the actual fact that he is publicly calling for an "us" to work together with a "them." This idea sounds good, nay, wonderful on the surface, but my experience with my shoddy Governator Arnold Schwarzeneggar leads me to suspect a hidden agenda and a weakness within themselves. For the past couple years, Governor Schwarzennegar has been telling us how wonderful it is that "Democraats and Republicuns are vurking togethar." This has been code that really means that the Republican resistance to the Democrat-turned-Leftist agenda has dissolved. Now, more than ever, Mr. People's notion of Commucrats and Demopublicans rings true. What a Republican politician means by "working together" with Democrats is that the Republicans have almost completely caved to the will of the Democrats (possibly because the Republicans secretly want the same thing as the Democrats: power instead of a democracy or a republic), and in return, the Democrats will do nothing besides a political charade that will visually appeal to the public's emotions so that they will go along with the evil plan and be willing cows to slaughter.

We need someone else for president, something else for policy.

The world wants to topple truth, justice, and the American way because it is sick and tired of us being so big and powerful, but only recently has America stepped onboard with this notion. A great nation crumbles not from without, but from within. We must fight for the survival, and possible revival, of this great, or once great, nation called the United States of America. The USA is supposed to make as close to perfection and greatness as possible, without the need for propaganda to prop it up. The moment the Republicans lose their sense of values and bend to the wills of the Leftistsnow parading themselves as Democrats, America's death knell will have rung. Let my fears of doomsday not be warranted.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
I might possibly, in a longshot, believe that this might help support the idea of Shadow Governments. .
To be clear, the EU is not a shadow government because it is not secretive or subversive. Examples of shadow government: The Mafia, The Illuminati (if they exist ), and possibly the Bush administration (if the scandals are as big as many think )

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
This might lead to an AU (American Union) similar to the EU where our American soveriegnty is called under question. John McCain is an open boarders nut, and the idea of unity around the world might lead to the disintegration of our boarders that I believe are there for a purpose, especially our southern boarder with Mexico. I want us to distinguish ourselves from Mexico as much as we possibly can, considering that Mexico is our geographical neighbor and we can't physically push Mexico away from us. I've been to Mexico. The only thing pretty about it is its coastline, and that is mainly for tourists to enjoy..
How does distancing ourselves from Mexico help the situation? Mexico's problem is primarily one of the government lacking the agency to remove corrupt elements and fight criminal gangs (another example of shadow government).
Also I don't believe that a union of countries automatically hurts sovereignty. It can be limited in the scope of its agreements. Ultimately a union between countries is the only way to stop a lot of the threats in the world. It should be as decentralized as possible... but it should have some way to ensure countries don't screw each other (right now it's harder to imagine unions having any ability to keep order than it is to figure out how to keep them from exerting totalitarian control).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
Another facet of this concerns the actual fact that he is publicly calling for an "us" to work together with a "them."..
God forbid. We might actually fix some situations rather than create more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
This idea sounds good, nay, wonderful on the surface, but my experience with my shoddy Governator Arnold Schwarzeneggar leads me to suspect a hidden agenda and a weakness within themselves. For the past couple years, Governor Schwarzennegar has been telling us how wonderful it is that "Democraats and Republicuns are vurking togethar." This has been code that really means that the Republican resistance to the Democrat-turned-Leftist agenda has dissolved.
It's code that the governor of the most liberal state in America is doing what his constituents want instead of screwing them for the benefit of the minority. He was elected by Californian citizens. He does what they want. He's been saying this all along.
I don't understand why so many people in this country have decided compromise is evil. Without compromise or a homogenous population, we have tyranny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
Now, more than ever, Mr. People's notion of Commucrats and Demopublicans rings true. What a Republican politician means by "working together" with Democrats is that the Republicans have almost completely caved to the will of the Democrats (possibly because the Republicans secretly want the same thing as the Democrats: power instead of a democracy or a republic), and in return, the Democrats will do nothing besides a political charade that will visually appeal to the public's emotions so that they will go along with the evil plan and be willing cows to slaughter.
This is called politics. The Republicans actually have the strength right now because they set the agenda. This leaves Democrats to have to oppose it and come up with a counter-agenda.
The parties have never been consistent. They change with the people. That's how a "two-party system" works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
We need someone else for president, something else for policy..
"Something else" maybe... but not "anything else", not canned rhetoric and the new boss who's same as the old boss. The problem is systematic and has a lot to do with the people, not so much with the parties themselves...
And frankly I think the phobia of compromise is only helping to make third parties seem unviable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
The world wants to topple truth, justice, and the American way because it is sick and tired of us being so big and powerful, but only recently has America stepped onboard with this notion. ..
This isn't true except in nationalist propaganda. Dictatorships only hate us when we're in their way... or when it aids them to fuel a socialist revolution (in which case it's more of a "hate"). The free world has loved us up until the latest set of conflicts. Analysis of European opinion has shown that one of the reasons we are so despised now is because we have always been seen as standing for liberty and justice... until the Iraq war and all the baggage with it. They had high expectations of us... So it makes sense that they react when we don't live up to them.
The concept of America needing "less power" isn't new either. Sam Huntington argued for it. The status as superpower can be argued to be more a liability than an asset. It forces us to spend more on world issues that should be left to other regional powers, goes the argument.
It's not really any more popular amongst Americans than it ever was. What we really seem to want is to be the superpower but not hold responsibility... to have our cake and eat it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale";p=&quot View Post
A great nation crumbles not from without, but from within. We must fight for the survival, and possible revival, of this great, or once great, nation called the United States of America. The USA is supposed to make as close to perfection and greatness as possible, without the need for propaganda to prop it up. The moment the Republicans lose their sense of values and bend to the wills of the Leftistsnow parading themselves as Democrats, America's death knell will have rung. Let my fears of doomsday not be warranted.
I'd say the inability of ideologues to compromise and get along is more dangerous to the country than anything... and seems to be shaping our foreign policy. Face it. If Crats and Pubs and others cannot compromise, then we have total gridlock. When that gridlock is broken, it will release policies that are completely objectionable to at least half the population.... rather than a policy that is slightly objectionable but overall good for the masses. It is a power struggle from within that tears us apart.
We are supposed to be debating, not battling, each other.
And we extend this to foreign policy... We won't work with anyone even for mutual benefit. Why? I suppose because we find it objectionable that we might not be able to betray our allies later?

Paranoia will destroy us long before any particular ideology will.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:03 PM
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Default .

Its a good idea.
Especially in light of the actions of the UN of the recent past and current time.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:45 PM
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Default I can't sleep anymore. It's too much like death.

I like the idea if it's something that has teeth, but it sounds promising. Not enough to make me vote for McCain, but maybe as a VP.
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:03 PM
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Default oh, brother!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion";p=&quot View Post
I like the idea if it's something that has teeth, but it sounds promising. Not enough to make me vote for McCain, but maybe as a VP.
Yes, by all means, let's create another international organization, and ignore them when it is expedient for us. Let's make John Bolton the ambassador!
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