Thread: Germany is cutting solar-power subsidies because they are expensive and inefficient

Originally Posted by Taxcutter

Without subsidies, will the German solar installations wind up like the wind farms at Tehachapi and Altamont Passes - abandoned?

How odd you suggest those wind farms are "abandoned"!

They build more turbines every day!


BTW, somehow it seems Right Wingers are very confused about solar and wind power.

Unlike fossil fuel, once the solar panels and turbines are in, there are NO MORE FUEL COSTS! (Which is why the fossil fuel industry hates it, of course!)

The sun and the wind are free.

The turbines are mostly stopped and some are missing blades. Some are missing entire propellor assemblies. Nobody seems to be fixing them.

Sounds abandoned to me.

Originally Posted by fiddlerdave

The sun and the wind are free.

Capturing the energy from them is far, far from free. More expensive than any other form of energy.

Originally Posted by Taxcutter

The turbines are mostly stopped and some are missing blades. Some are missing entire propellor assemblies. Nobody seems to be fixing them.

Sounds abandoned to me.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/..._ghosts_1.html

There's a link.

Originally Posted by Taxcutter

The turbines are mostly stopped and some are missing blades. Some are missing entire propellor assemblies. Nobody seems to be fixing them.

Sounds abandoned to me.

Windmills are like any man made product. They wear out eventually. Windmills have been around for centuries and they've been used to generate electricity for decades. There are abandoned coal plants, gas plants, nuclear plants, hydroplanes, etc. Name one form of energy that doesn't have abandoned plants.

If you drive around wind country you will see wind farms with multiple generation of windmills. Sometimes the older ones aren't being used anymore and have had blades removed. Here is a picture of older windmills in the foreground and newer windmills in the background.



Here is an abandoned nuclear plant...



ALL nuclear plants have to eventually be abandoned. I personally would prefer an abandoned windmill behind my house than an abandoned nuclear plant, but tastes vary.

Originally Posted by 3link

Because in high school you learn the difference between a question and an assertion.

Actually, that may have been middle school.

Apparently not.

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

You have convert to the heat first, you have to transfer into storage, then there is loss while it is stored (hot things tend to cool), then you have to transfer back out.

Transfer what to heat? Heat?!?!

All energy systems have losses. The losses from digging up coal, washing it, transporting it to a power station (not to mention rehabilitating the hole it was dug out of) are far greater than those of collecting heat on site, storing that heat and using that heat to turn a turbine.

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

And how much can you store? 7 to 12 hours most systems. Not gonna get you through a cloudy day and then night. Where is the electricity going to come from then?

From the heat contained in the molten salt.

On the rare occaisions there is not enough heat from the sun to keep the salt molten - alternate energy sources such as gas or biofuels may be used to keep the salt at operating temperature.

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

And where does the heat come from? You have to build the solar plant that much larger.

You could. Or you use an alternate fuel to such as gas or biofuels to keep the salt at operating temperature on the rare occasions this is required

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

Yeah and if you are cloudy for three days?

You may need burn another fuel tempoarily

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

And highly corrosive and costly to maintain.

WTF?!?!?!?

We are talking about an alternative to coal. Nuclear.
Do you know how either of those industries work?
Slightly more complicated and "and costly to maintain" than a simple tank full of molten salt.

Originally Posted by James Cessna

Ha-Ha!

You are funny, Jeb.

It is a well proven fact that "solar energy" will not satisfy our future energy needs. Try as hard as they may, the "greenies" cannot make the sun shine at night, and thay cannot make the solar energy collectors work on cloudy and overcast days!

In most areas of the USA, both conditions usually prevail at least 50-60% of the time!

Nice try, but no cigar!

Solar thermal with storage can provide flexible baseload power operating 24 hours a day

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

Then where is the electricity going to come from when you have used up your stored thermal last night and it is cloudy this morning?

From the heat stored in the molten salt that has been kept in a molten state by an alternative energy source.

Germany to cut solar subsidies faster than expected

BERLIN/FRANKFURT | Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:18am EST

(Reuters) - Germany plans to bring forward cuts in solar power subsidies of up to 30 percent by almost a month to March 9, spelling further trouble for companies selling solar panels in the world's No.2 market.

Government sources had told Reuters on Wednesday the cuts of 20 to 30 percent would be moved forward to April 1, news that sent share prices tumbling. On Thursday Environment Minister Norbert Roettgen and Economy Minister Philipp said the cuts would be moved forward even more, to March 9, to thwart any last-minute boom in projects, a further blow to producers.

Shares in European solar companies plunged further on Thursday, with sector bellwethers SolarWorld, SMA Solar, Q-Cells, Renewable Energy Corp (REC) and Centrotherm down by between 3.2 and 12.8 percent by 1540 GMT.

U.S.-based First Solar and China's Suntech were down 5.64 and 4.9 percent in early Wall Street trading.

German retail electricity prices are 21 to 24 cents per kWh.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...81M1EG20120223

The baseline rate I pay where I live is 8 cents per kWh.

German is very smart to kill off the subsidies for that money pit. If solar can't be economically viable on it's own, it's simply not ready for prime time.