Thread: Virginia Ultrasound Bill Passes In House

I'm glad someone cares enough about women to make sure they get the facts about abortion. The abortion industry tends to lie to women for profit.

Planned Parenthood’s use of unscientific and fabricated medical information to convince women to have abortions

So much for the myth that the abortion industry cares about choice. If you care about choice you don't lie to the one making the decision.

Originally Posted by Bowerbird

No but statistics from across the world where abortion is illegal show one overwhelming fact - illegality causes maternal mortality
http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar...ed=0CBkQgQMwAA


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...20729298001945

The evidence is unequivocal

Now can you answer the question - "What would drive a woman to have an abortion in the face of outcomes like these?"

IF YOU LOOK AT THE MATERNAL STATISTICS FROM AMERICA ALONE…ITS LOW.

"Finally, the most comprehensive study done suggests that the best estimate of the total number of abortions (legal + illegal) occurring in 1966, before any laws changed, is about 125,000 (McKnight 1992 – 124,342). Since permissive laws began to be passed in 1967, therefore, induced abortions have increased 10 to 12 fold. The idea that prior to Roe v. Wade thousands of women died each year from illegal abortions is a myth."

[Raymond J. Adamek is Emeritus Professor of Sociology at Kent State University, where he has taught courses in family, statistics, and research methods; has produced eighteen publications in professional journals.]

http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/885/26/

"This is easily demonstrated in a variety of ways. In 1973, there were approximately 106 million women living in the United States, of whom 876,208 died that year. If 20,000 women had died by coathanger, it would have been the seventh leading cause of female death at 18.8 per 100,000, putting it right between diabetes mellititus and arteriosclerosis. In fact, a mere 10,000 deaths by coathanger would have still made the top ten, beating out suicide by a comfortable 2,090 female corpses."

"If women had been dying of complications related to illegal abortions, one would expect to see a decline in the female death rate starting in 1974. And that is exactly what an examination of the statistics shows! From 1971 to 1973, the female American death rate averaged 806.13 per 100,000. But in the seven years after the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, that rate declined to an average of 768.25 deaths per 100,000 women. This would seem to indicate that 4.9 percent fewer women were dying, which could suggest that coathangers were responsible for almost 43,000 annual deaths!…………...What blows that notion away is that as female deaths declined by about 5 percent, male deaths declined even more rapidly, by 8 percent, in the same time frame. So, unless sapient, murderously minded coathangers were wreaking havoc on men and women alike before disappearing mysterously in 1974, one can only conclude that there were other explanations for this reduced female mortality. And sure enough, the delta in the death rates for cancer, murder and heart disease are more than enough to account for the overall decline."

http://www.wnd.com/2006/07/37157/

DID NOT HAPPEN.

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/aborti...etuated/60958/


GREAT VIDEO

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...p&fr=yfp-t-701

Originally Posted by AnnaK

I don't believe in abortion for myself.

Still waiting....................... ..why not? What do you have against abortion?

Originally Posted by Makedde

Actually she does, and she is correct. The typre of ulttrasound Repubs want to force on women is a vaginal ultrasound -NOT the ultrasound you see in the picture. A vaginal ultrasound is needed only in the very early stages of pregancy because the fetus cannot yet be seen properly with a regular ultrasound!

PP and every abortion clinic I have looked up, several quoted here, require ultrasound before they will do an abortion.

What kind do they require at the very early stages?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECHkQCFI28k&feature=pl ayer_embedded"]Pro-Life 101 "The Myth of Coat Hanger Abortions" - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

Still waiting....................... ..why not? What do you have against abortion?

She probably thinks its immoral and wrong…but is content to look away and wants no protection to the unborn. That is pro-abortion.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

Oh the drama!!!! Lets think of every worse scenario we can and pretend that's why most abortions happen.

OF COURSE it's why abortion happens. It's why abortion needs to be safe and legal. Because those worst scenarios DO HAPPEN - contrary to the meme that "most are for CONVENIENCE". Well, what is "convenience"?

When a child is raped and gets pregnant, do you consider it nothing more than "convenience" to not force her to carry her rapist's baby? Is it merely "convenience" to not have to give up the last few months of your education and graduate and be ready to go to work and support yourself? Is it simply "convenience" to abort a baby when you're the sole support of 2 or 3 others and you're a single mother and there's no way you can take care of and support another one?

Pro-lifers say "convenience" like it's such a cavalier decision and refuse to admit that there are REAL and VALID reasons to terminate a pregnancy. Is it mere "convenience" to make decisions that will affect the rest of your life and your family's life and instead of doing something that will totally wreck it for everybody, do what's BEST for everybody?

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

Please address my responses to you

I was asking about yours, but if you are going to debate this with me then care enough about mine to debate it and not ones you try to assign to me.

So what about yours?

What has the higher morality saving thousands of lives, hundreds of lives or easing one, two or three in despair?

My concern is with the ALREADY LIVING - those whose lives are in progress and having an unplanned baby will completely change it for the worse.

There's a strange disconnect here that I really don't understand - pro-lifers are absolutely determined that every fertilized egg be born no matter what the consequences for the mother yet they complain viciously about the "sluts" that have babies they can't take care of and these same pro-lifers are forced to help support them through social services.

YOU are the one obsessed with taking innocent human life yet WE are the ones so lost to all sense of humanity?

I'm not at all obsessed with taking innocent human life. And yes - you're completely lost to the needs and suffering of living people - particularly women - because you see them as less than human?

Why? Every time someone on my side mentions the fact that it is a human life you fight to the hilt denying it, claiming WE are the one so uninformed.

So if it is just a clump of cells, if it is not human, if it is not a life, AS YOU CLAIM what is so emotional about it, what is the trauma?

YOU are the one who has been telling us it is nothing to be concerned with, it is just a blob, now it is something emotional and traumatic.

Those have been YOUR points used to attack. So it isn't JUST a clump of cells, it ISN'T just a blob. It IS a life that is killed and THAT is why it is traumatic and emotional?

You apparently really believe that women who have abortions just blithely say "Oh, darn! Pregnant again! Guess I'll have to run by the clinic during lunch and have it taken care of!" This is what bothers me - you believe every woman is a murderer unless she can be legally prevented from making her own decisions about her life and health. You believe that there's absolutely nothing traumatic about finding out she's pregnant at the worst time in her life for that to happen and that she's not smart enough to know what she's doing so YOU have to tell her and make laws that YOU approve of to keep her under your control.

By the time a woman gets to the point of the actual procedure, she's been through an extremely emotional and traumatic experience - topped off by the surgery. And what you see as your "higher morality" doesn't pass the laugh test when you're degrading these women and trivializing what they're going through.

Originally Posted by Bluesguy

Still waiting....................... ..why not? What do you have against abortion?

I was healthy, financially stable and able to take care of my children. None of my babies had deformities or medical conditions that would have made me consider it. I had no NEED to consider abortion. If there HAD been reason to have one, I would have been able to do it safely and legally with a much better chance of surviving it and being able to raise the ones I already had.

I can't even imagine being the daughter of a pro-lifer and knowing that if I found myself pregnant as a result of a brutal rape or with a baby that was horribly deformed or one that put MY life at risk, I'd have no recourse to do what was right for myself because my pro-life parents would ALWAYS put the welfare of the fetus ahead of my own.

Originally Posted by AnnaK

I was healthy, financially stable and able to take care of my children. None of my babies had deformities or medical conditions that would have made me consider it. I had no NEED to consider abortion. If there HAD been reason to have one, I would have been able to do it safely and legally with a much better chance of surviving it and being able to raise the ones I already had.

I can't even imagine being the daughter of a pro-lifer and knowing that if I found myself pregnant as a result of a brutal rape or with a baby that was horribly deformed or one that put MY life at risk, I'd have no recourse to do what was right for myself because my pro-life parents would ALWAYS put the welfare of the fetus ahead of my own.

No, that's why you didn't have one. Why are you AGAINST it?