Thread: Marine's Facebook Page Tests Military Rules

Marine's Facebook Page Tests Military Rules

By Julie Watson | Associated Press - Wed, Mar 7, 2012

Excerpts:

SAN DIEGO (AP) – “Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad.

"I think that it's been pretty well established for a long time that freedom of speech is one area in which people do surrender some of their basic rights in entering the armed forces," said former Navy officer David Glazier, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

"Good order and discipline require the military maintain respect for the chain of command," Glazier said. "That includes prohibiting speech critical of the senior officers in that chain of command - up to and including the commander in chief."

According to Pentagon directives, military personnel in uniform can't sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.

Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials, including the defense secretary or the president.

In January, an Army reservist wearing camouflaged fatigues got into trouble for taking the stage during a rally in Iowa with Republican presidential candidate and Texas congressman Ron Paul.

Stein was first cautioned by his superiors at Camp Pendleton, north of San Diego, in 2010 after he launched his Facebook page, criticizing Obama's health care overhaul. Stein volunteered to take down the page while he reviewed the rules at the request of his superiors.

He said he determined he was not in violation and relaunched the page under the shortened account name Armed Forces Tea Party. Last week, he said his superiors told him he couldn't use social media sites on government computers after he posted the message stating he would not follow unlawful orders of the president.

Stein said his statement was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.

In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.

Another Marine alerted his command about the statement, Stein said.

Stein said he respects the office of the president, but he does not agree with Obama's policies. He said he is within his rights to speak up.

"Just because I'm a Marine doesn't mean I don't have free speech or can't say my personal opinion about the president or other public official just like anybody else," Stein said. "The Constitution trumps everything else."

The Marine Corps said Stein is allowed to express his personal opinions as long as they do not give the impression he is speaking in his official capacity as a Marine. Spokesman Maj. Michael Armistead said the Corps is taking a closer look to ensure Stein has not crossed that line.

Stein appears in a dress shirt and tie on his Facebook page but he also describes himself as "a conservative blogger, speaker, the founder of the Armed Forces Tea Party and active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran."

Military observers say it's not that simple. They say it is bad form to lash out at the commander in chief. Experts also say his Facebook postings appear to link his professional standing with his political views.

They also point out that the Pentagon policy is necessary in preventing political and religious debates that could divide a unit and disrupt the strong working relationship that is needed to carry out missions, Glazier said.

"There are plenty of examples in the world of militaries heavily involved in influencing political events that have shown that is not conducive to civilian rule of law," he said.”

read:
http://news.yahoo.com/marines-facebo...234113159.html

The following is a copy which affirms the duties of the enlistee:

“All enlisted personnel in the United States military must make the following oath of office when they enlist in the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps:

“I, (state your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
http://military.plainfacts.net/milit...of-enlistment/
......

IMO: Stein will lose, and be reprimanded or court-martialed because at his enlistment, he did sign and orally took the Oath of Enlistment in which he swore
"to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic
...and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

Further, Stein is now repudiating the oath he verbally agreed to when he enlisted. He has no capacity to change the rules. Also he is actively recruiting for the Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots basically affirming his belief that rules concerning orders are valid only if you agree with them, Also Stein cowardly wears civilian clothes when he is an active duty Marine who has previously agreed to regulations and the duty to follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice, agreeing to follow the orders of the President and officers appointed above him.

His own statement says it all: “Just because I'm a Marine doesn't mean I don't have free speech or can't say my personal opinion about the president or other public official just like anybody else," Stein said. ‘The Constitution trumps everything else.’ “

Stein should resign or be court-martialed so that he can be free to do his thing without the requirements of the Marine Corps standing in his way.

Originally Posted by Agent_286

Marine's Facebook Page Tests Military Rules

By Julie Watson | Associated Press - Wed, Mar 7, 2012

Excerpts:

SAN DIEGO (AP) – “Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad.

"I think that it's been pretty well established for a long time that freedom of speech is one area in which people do surrender some of their basic rights in entering the armed forces," said former Navy officer David Glazier, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

"Good order and discipline require the military maintain respect for the chain of command," Glazier said. "That includes prohibiting speech critical of the senior officers in that chain of command - up to and including the commander in chief."

According to Pentagon directives, military personnel in uniform can't sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.

Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials, including the defense secretary or the president.

In January, an Army reservist wearing camouflaged fatigues got into trouble for taking the stage during a rally in Iowa with Republican presidential candidate and Texas congressman Ron Paul.

Stein was first cautioned by his superiors at Camp Pendleton, north of San Diego, in 2010 after he launched his Facebook page, criticizing Obama's health care overhaul. Stein volunteered to take down the page while he reviewed the rules at the request of his superiors.

He said he determined he was not in violation and relaunched the page under the shortened account name Armed Forces Tea Party. Last week, he said his superiors told him he couldn't use social media sites on government computers after he posted the message stating he would not follow unlawful orders of the president.

Stein said his statement was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.

In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.

Another Marine alerted his command about the statement, Stein said.

Stein said he respects the office of the president, but he does not agree with Obama's policies. He said he is within his rights to speak up.

"Just because I'm a Marine doesn't mean I don't have free speech or can't say my personal opinion about the president or other public official just like anybody else," Stein said. "The Constitution trumps everything else."

The Marine Corps said Stein is allowed to express his personal opinions as long as they do not give the impression he is speaking in his official capacity as a Marine. Spokesman Maj. Michael Armistead said the Corps is taking a closer look to ensure Stein has not crossed that line.

Stein appears in a dress shirt and tie on his Facebook page but he also describes himself as "a conservative blogger, speaker, the founder of the Armed Forces Tea Party and active-duty, eight-year Marine Corps veteran."

Military observers say it's not that simple. They say it is bad form to lash out at the commander in chief. Experts also say his Facebook postings appear to link his professional standing with his political views.

They also point out that the Pentagon policy is necessary in preventing political and religious debates that could divide a unit and disrupt the strong working relationship that is needed to carry out missions, Glazier said.

"There are plenty of examples in the world of militaries heavily involved in influencing political events that have shown that is not conducive to civilian rule of law," he said.”

read:
http://news.yahoo.com/marines-facebo...234113159.html

The following is a copy which affirms the duties of the enlistee:

“All enlisted personnel in the United States military must make the following oath of office when they enlist in the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps:

“I, (state your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
http://military.plainfacts.net/milit...of-enlistment/
......

IMO: Stein will lose, and be reprimanded or court-martialed because at his enlistment, he did sign and orally took the Oath of Enlistment in which he swore
"to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic
...and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

Further, Stein is now repudiating the oath he verbally agreed to when he enlisted. He has no capacity to change the rules. Also he is actively recruiting for the Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots basically affirming his belief that rules concerning orders are valid only if you agree with them, Also Stein cowardly wears civilian clothes when he is an active duty Marine who has previously agreed to regulations and the duty to follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice, agreeing to follow the orders of the President and officers appointed above him.

His own statement says it all: “Just because I'm a Marine doesn't mean I don't have free speech or can't say my personal opinion about the president or other public official just like anybody else," Stein said. ‘The Constitution trumps everything else.’ “

Stein should resign or be court-martialed so that he can be free to do his thing without the requirements of the Marine Corps standing in his way.

Obama also signed an oath and he has broke it so impeach Obama. Funny how you condemn this soldier but give Obama a pass.

If this man has followed orders in his service what has he done?

A: Obama hasn't committed any impeachable offense, even if you don't like him...

B: Once you're in the military, free speech isn't the same...

You can't go on a public venue and say you're not gonna obey the C-in-C's orders...

that's just stupid...

Originally Posted by Really People?

A: Obama hasn't committed any impeachable offense, even if you don't like him...

B: Once you're in the military, free speech isn't the same...

You can't go on a public venue and say you're not gonna obey the C-in-C's orders...

that's just stupid...

You can say you wont follow any "unlawful" orders.

Originally Posted by RP12

You can say you wont follow any "unlawful" orders.

What "unlaful" orders did he receive from his commanders. He is more than a few steps removed from the Pres.

Originally Posted by Really People?

B: Once you're in the military, free speech isn't the same...

You can't go on a public venue and say you're not gonna obey the C-in-C's orders...

The people tasked with protecting our rights do not also enjoy them? Interesting.

Originally Posted by mdrobster

What "unlaful" orders did he receive from his commanders. He is more than a few steps removed from the Pres.

"In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights."

Originally Posted by RP12

You can say you wont follow any "unlawful" orders.

.....

Upon emlistment, he swore under oath to obey the rules of said emlistment oath.

It would be like getting married swearing to love one another till death do you part, then divorcing each other after your first fight.....

They should court martial him.

Sargeant?

He's a peon in relative terms. He's not going to get any direct orders from the Commander in Chief at that level.

He can talk all he wants.....the first time he chooses to disobey orders by any of his superior officers, he will face actual consequences.