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Old 12-27-2007, 09:55 AM
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Furthermore, the elimination of taxes is absurd.
The elimination of taxes already happened. Thomas Jefferson repealed all internal taxes during his Presidency and the United States was completely tax free at the federal level from 1802 to 1860. And we became the richest, most productive nation in the world as a result.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 10:29 AM
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Are you in the military fighting in Iraq right now? Or are you hiding at home?
Irrelevant.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:33 AM
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The elimination of taxes already happened. Thomas Jefferson repealed all internal taxes during his Presidency and the United States was completely tax free at the federal level from 1802 to 1860. And we became the richest, most productive nation in the world as a result.
That is an unsustainable practice considering the need to mantain the level of infrastructure and law enforcement our society demands. The Laffer curve suggests that at both extremes of taxation, the economy suffers considerable damage. The key to improve the tax burden is accountability not elimination.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:44 AM
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Irrelevant.
You being a hypocrite on the issue is not irrelevant. Keep hiding...
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:50 AM
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You being a hypocrite on the issue is not irrelevant. Keep hiding...
The fact that I am currently NOT serving in the military is irrelevant to the point that the US needs to be an active member of the international community in order to protect American interests. This sort of ad hominem approach obscures the conversation and is a sign of a lack of strength in the opponents POV.

P.S. I am actively involved in helping American protect its interests internationally.
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Old 12-27-2007, 11:15 AM
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That is an unsustainable practice considering the need to mantain the level of infrastructure and law enforcement our society demands. The Laffer curve suggests that at both extremes of taxation, the economy suffers considerable damage. The key to improve the tax burden is accountability not elimination.
The Laffer curve is a collectivist statist economic measuring stick.

Logic and reason prove that taxation is theft, and therefore people have a right to be free of it.

Also, there is no "society" - that's the reification fallacy. No rights exceed the rights of the individual, and every individual has the right to keep all that he or she earns.
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Old 12-27-2007, 11:18 AM
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The fact that I am currently NOT serving in the military is irrelevant to the point that the US needs to be an active member of the international community in order to protect American interests.
Your position - "I want to use force to extract money from people (taxation) to empower groups of people (government/military) to buy weapons and advertise to hire soldiers, or as a last resort draft them - to do things I believe in - BUT I will not go fight and die myself, cause that wouldn't be very fun."

The U.S. needs to communicate with other countries. The U.S. should be able to freely trade with other countries. But loosely defineable "interests" are no reason for the U.S. to start pre-emptive wars and bomb other countries. The U.S. also should end foreign aid - it only lines the bank accounts of dictators.
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:28 PM
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
The Laffer curve is a collectivist statist economic measuring stick.

Logic and reason prove that taxation is theft, and therefore people have a right to be free of it.

Also, there is no "society" - that's the reification fallacy. No rights exceed the rights of the individual, and every individual has the right to keep all that he or she earns.
We disagree greatly due to practical considerations of your principles. Society exists and has been a component of human civilization since we move from hunter-gatherer packs to agrarian communities. There is a cost to mantain this society and civilization, Taxes are precisely those costs.

Logic proves that the rights of individuals can only be protected in a society capable of protecting its own. This cannot be done for free. The rights of one individidual, in addition, cannot come at harm to others. To enforce this, taxes are needed. Further, there are various bilateral social contracts that exists between the community and the individual and taxes are needed to ensure that these mechanisms are functioning efficiently.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
Your position - "I want to use force to extract money from people (taxation) to empower groups of people (government/military) to buy weapons and advertise to hire soldiers, or as a last resort draft them - to do things I believe in - BUT I will not go fight and die myself, cause that wouldn't be very fun."

The U.S. needs to communicate with other countries. The U.S. should be able to freely trade with other countries. But loosely defineable "interests" are no reason for the U.S. to start pre-emptive wars and bomb other countries. The U.S. also should end foreign aid - it only lines the bank accounts of dictators.
You have no clue what my position is. I'd avoid guessing. You're no Miss Cleo.
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