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Thread: Three problems with George Zimmerman’s self-defense claims

  1. #1

    Icon19 Three problems with George Zimmerman’s self-defense claims

    For all the disputed facts in the Trayvon Martin case there is actually a fairly large amount of evidence which is undisputed. No one disagrees that George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. No one disputes that Martin was unarmed at the time of the shooting. Many homicide cases involve more serious questions of fact or intent. In this case the police have the weapon used in the killing. They have the body to prove that the victim did die. Prosecutors even have Zimmerman’s confession that he intended to kill Martin. The only way that Zimmerman should be able to escape prison time, or perhaps worse, is if he can prove that this was a justifiable homicide. However, as detailed below, there are a number of problems with Zimmerman’s self-defense claim.

    Problem #1: The lack of a threat to Zimmerman

    Zimmerman provided perhaps the most (*)(*)(*)(*)ing evidence against himself when he called the police dispatcher to report Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman claimed that Martin was suspicious simply because he was “walking” and “looking around.” Zimmerman never cites anything about Martin which could provide a threat to his person, or any other person. Subsequent reports showed that Martin was only carrying a bag of Skittles and a bottle of ice tea at the time. Zimmerman, on the other hand, was carrying a 9 mm handgun. Given those set of facts, it is hard to imagine how Zimmerman felt threatened enough to initiate the contact with Martin.

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    Since the story has exploded, Zimmerman’s attorney has claimed that Martin punched Zimmerman in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman’s attorney claims that at this point his client fired the weapon when fearing for his life. However, there are a number of problems with the story.

    According to multiple reports, Zimmerman weighed 250 pounds compared to Martin, who weighed only 140 pounds. Will a jury really believe that Zimmerman was at such a physical disadvantage that he felt it necessary to use deadly force on Martin? The Florida statutes dealing with self-defense state that the person using deadly force must be in “imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.” In other words, Zimmerman must prove more than just that he was losing a fight to a boy nearly half his size. Zimmerman must prove that he feared death or great bodily harm, even though he did not seek medical attention at a hospital until a day after the alleged fight.

    Problem #2: Zimmerman initiated the conflict

    In the audio recording with police dispatchers Zimmerman was specifically told not to follow Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman said “OK” after being given that instruction. However, according to his own attorney’s claims, Zimmerman was first punched by Martin when he was outside of his truck. This evidence suggests that Zimmerman did step out of his car, and if anyone perceived a threat at this time it was likely Martin.

    Martin was simply walking home at the time. According to Martin’s girlfriend Martin called her minutes before the shooting to complain about a strange man who was following him. Imagine how Martin felt being followed by an adult male nearly twice his size in a truck. Imagine how threatened Martin could have been when this "strange man" stepped out of his car with a visible gun holster. Under these circumstances, Martin may have reasonably feared imminent “death or great bodily harm.”

    Because he was arguably the original aggressor in the conflict, Florida Statute 776.041 will require a higher degree proof for Zimmerman to justify his use of deadly force. Specifically, Zimmerman will either have to prove that he feared “death or serious bodily” injury, but as covered before Zimmerman may have difficulty making the case.

    In the alternative, Zimmerman could prove that he “indicated clearly” his intent to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but that the assailant (Martin in this hypothetical) continued his use of force. The problem with this defense is multiple witnesses who have said that it was Martin, not Zimmerman, who was crying for help at the time of the altercation.

    Problem #3: The “stand your ground” law still required fear of death or serious bodily injury

    Much has been made of Florida’s “stand your ground” law which is found in the Florida Statutes chapter 776.013. The law may or may not apply to Zimmerman. Zimmerman will still have to prove that he was not engaged in an “unlawful” activity when he shot Zimmerman. In addition, Zimmerman will have to prove that he was in a place where he had a “right to be” and had “no duty to escape” when he shot Martin.

    Even if he proves these elements, the stand your ground law still does not allow someone like Zimmerman to use deadly force unless, once again, he reasonable fears death or serious bodily injury. The fear must be reasonable, not merely subjective based on some irrational thought process that Zimmerman may have had at the time.

    In conclusion, everything goes back to Zimmerman’s mindset at the time of the shooting. If a jury believes that Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life at the time the shooting he could be found not guilty. However, it is hard to see how Zimmerman’s fear was reasonable when Martin was unarmed at the time, and when Zimmerman held a significant physical advantage over Martin.

    http://www.examiner.com/political-bu...defense-claims
    Interesting points

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    Quote Originally Posted by superbadbrutha View Post

    Interesting points
    You are mistaken, brutha.

    You have clearly been deceived by the far Left.

    Don't believe anything the far Left says about this case. The far Left and their supporters are so stupid they can't even get George Zimmerman’s street address correct!

    MARCH 27--With Twitter and Facebook continuing to explode with posts purporting to contain the address of George Zimmerman, property records and interviews reveal that the home is actually the longtime residence of a married Florida couple, both in their 70s, who have no connection to the man who killed Trayvon Martin and are now living in fear due to erroneous reports about their connection to the shooter.

    The mass dissemination of the address on Edgewater Circle in Sanford--the Florida city where Martin was shot to death last month--took flight last Friday when director Spike Lee retweeted a tweet containing Zimmerman’s purported address to his 240,000 followers.

    The original tweet was sent to Lee (and numerous other celebrities like Will Smith, 50 Cent, and LeBron James) last Friday afternoon by Marcus Davonne Higgins, a 33-year-old Los Angeles man who uses the online handle “maccapone.” Higgins included the direction, “EVERYBODY REPOST THIS.”

    Higgins first began disseminating the Sanford address to his Twitter followers last Wednesday, including the claim that Zimmerman “Like the fat punk he is, he still lives at home with mommie & daddy.” In a simultaneous post to his Facebook wall, Higgins told his 4000 friends, “FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT & TOUCH HIM.” He also claimed in another post that, “REAL TALK MY PEOPLE OUT THERE IN FLORIDA JUST TOLD ME GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS NOT AT HIS HOUSE THEY OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.”

    Higgins’s dissemination of Zimmerman’s purported Edgewater Circle address was not, however, limited to cyberspace. At a protest rally last Thursday in an L.A. park near his Crenshaw home, Higgins held a sign containing Zimmerman’s name, address, and phone number.

    Except, of course, none were accurate.

    The man who shot Martin is George Michael Zimmerman. Higgins has repeatedly identified him as “George W. Zimmerman.”

    The residence on Edgewater Circle is actually the home of David McClain, 72, and his wife Elaine, 70. The McClains, both of whom work for the Seminole County school system, have lived in the 1310-square-foot lakefront home for about a decade, records show.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...n-tweet-567891
    James Cessna

    "If you give a man a fish (socialism), you feed him for a day. It you teach a man to fish (capitalism), you feed him and the people he employs for a lifetime."

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by superbadbrutha View Post
    Interesting points
    Interesting opinions. Too bad arrests aren't made based on public opinion.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    You are mistaken, brutha.

    You have clearly been deceived by the far Left.

    Don't believe anything the far Left says about this case. The far Left and their supporters are so stupid they can't even get George Zimmerman’s street address correct!
    So you don't object to posting a private address on the internet, only if it's a wrong private address on the internet?

    Does that mean you support freedom of speech or the abuse of freedom of speech?

    It's all confusing to me.

  6. Default

    Zimmerman forced Martin to commit battery ?
    Martin did not have the choice to sit tight and wait for police ?
    What the two parties fight over is not alternative political visions and different legislative agendas, but which party gets to be the whore for Wall Street, the military-security complex, Israel Lobby, agribusiness, and energy, mining, and timber interests. - Paul Craig Roberts

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    I thought Florida's law did not have the "reasonable" fear standard. If I'm wrong, I'm glad. It makes their SYG law much less likely to become cover for murder.
    Man up.

    Think. *Then* post.

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    3 reasons the OP is BS

    1. witnesses place Martin on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the concrete sand punching him. Weight does not matter in a fight. If you are sucker punched and not used to fighting any one can take you down. One of the baddest guys I ever knew only weighed 140, he was a expert at street/bar fighting

    2. Zimmerman was never told not top follow. The exact words of the 911 dispatcher were " sir you don't need to do that". 911 dispatchers are not law enforcement personnel btw

    3. maybe you should try letting someone sit on you and pound your head into a sidewalk and see if you fear for your life
    "America is more than just a place...it's an idea. It's the only country founded on an idea. 'Our rights come from nature and God, not government.' We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes." - Paul Ryan

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jackdog View Post

    3 reasons the OP is BS

    1. witnesses place Martin on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the concrete sand punching him. Weight does not matter in a fight. If you are sucker punched and not used to fighting any one can take you down. One of the baddest guys I ever knew only weighed 140, he was a expert at street/bar fighting

    2. Zimmerman was never told not top follow. The exact words of the 911 dispatcher were " sir you don't need to do that". 911 dispatchers are not law enforcement personnel btw

    3. maybe you should try letting someone sit on you and pound your head into a sidewalk and see if you fear for your life
    Ha-Ha!

    You are very correct, Jackdog.

    Don't believe anything the far Left says about this case.

    The far Left and their supporters are so stupid they can't even get George Zimmerman’s street address correct!

    The facts surrounding this case are now clearly established by several eyewitnesses.

    Trayvon Martin was clearly the aggressor in this incident.

    He attacked George Zimmerman from behind and knocked him to the ground while he was walking back to his vehicle to wait for the police to arrive.

    Case Closed, Problem solved.
    Last edited by James Cessna; Mar 28 2012 at 07:15 AM.
    James Cessna

    "If you give a man a fish (socialism), you feed him for a day. It you teach a man to fish (capitalism), you feed him and the people he employs for a lifetime."

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    That little rat bag who retweeted the wrong address ought to be charged with incitement. What goes around ALWAYS comes around Spike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Ha-Ha!

    You are very correct, Jackdog.

    Don't believe anything the far Left says about this case.

    The far Left and their supporters are so stupid they can't even get George Zimmerman’s street address correct!

    The facts surrounding this case are now clearly established by several eyewitnesses.

    Trayvon Martin was clearly the aggressor in this incident.

    He attacked George Zimmerman from behind and knocked him to the ground while he was walking back to his vehicle to wait for the police to arrive.

    Case Closed, Problem solved.
    Bull(*)(*)(*)(*) post.

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